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How does this compare?


Wodin
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To other recent RTS games? Specifically with regards to micro management. I just cant play realtime games that turn into a click fest, to fast, to many units, and to much hand holding with each unit needed.. I loved the Close Combat games as the pace was perfect, also it is a hell of alot easier assessing the game when its top down 2D view. All the other games (except the airborne series by panther games, but that's a different scale) drive me insane.

I tried the demo at half speed which seemed OK.

So if anyone is like me and has bought the game how did you find it?

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To other recent RTS games? Specifically with regards to micro management. I just cant play realtime games that turn into a click fest, to fast, to many units, and to much hand holding with each unit needed.. I loved the Close Combat games as the pace was perfect, also it is a hell of alot easier assessing the game when its top down 2D view. All the other games (except the airborne series by panther games, but that's a different scale) drive me insane.

I tried the demo at half speed which seemed OK.

So if anyone is like me and has bought the game how did you find it?

Hi Wodin!

Yeah, I know you like the AA-Series :).

Well, I'm not like you, but there's a chance that you miss an event or that a certain unit needs micro-management in a vital moment, so that's where half speed comes in handy.

Being able to pause the game and issue orders (you can't do that in Close Combat) is a nice feature, too.

The amount of units is usually manageable, but the friendly Infantry AI is sometimes so hmmm let me call it unclever :D (they tend to behave like klutz soldiers quite some times, running into their own nades when assaulting, crouching or standing where they were ordered to go to prone position), so that they need extra micro-management in those moments. It's been like that in TOW1 too, so I don't know if they're going to patch it.

Some of the issues and features of the game:

  • Spotting (pls see the "TOW2 is a sniper war?" thread) - where one part of the deal is the fact that i.e. AT guns can spot you but you won't be able to spot them at ranges ~/+ 800 meters (i.e. in the demo mission) so that you have to send infantry as spotters,
  • unrealistic (high) lethality of small arms fire at long ranges (not sure if this is going to be patched),
  • unhistoric short ranges of German tank guns (see same thread),
  • the current memory management (which is being addressed in the first patch, though),
  • Design (UI and Game Design) decisions which are showstoppers in a way:

    a)Hold is always OFF for all units, you have to issue a hold order to each unit (you can group units and set them to HOLD position though, so it's manageable, still involves a bit of click-ology).
    It's the other way around with Games from other companies: HOLD will be always OFF in those games, unless you enable "move/charge at will".

    b)The type of formation won't be memorized, the type has to be selected again each time you re-select a given unit,
    --

  • The game holds some bugs, but once the memory/savegame bug is fixed, I wouldn't say that the other bugs have potential to make the game unplayable (the savegame bug has that potential, though). There are CTDs, but they may be caused by the memory-bug.
  • The 3 campaigns are somewhat short. Around 5-6 missions for each side (3 sides).
  • The mission editor is really powerful (complex too, though), so there should be quite some user scenarios, once mappers got familiar with the tool. Someone's working on a Mod, too, it seems.
  • The release version is not exactly a really solid game, but it's still fun to play - if you don't find the silly features or shortcomings too disturbing.
  • Friendly infantry and trenches, 2 ingredients that don't mix? ;) (pls see threads with bug list)

TOW 2 is a good step forward, compared to TOW 1, especially visually, but quite some issues that could be experienced in TOW 1 already (especially with infantry behaviour) are still present in TOW2.

The game carries the most realistic approach (regarding armor penetration, weapon sounds, and destructable environment compared to other 3D - RTS), but it's not fit to hold a candle to industry (RTS) standard features - in quite some fields: Friendly/enemy AI behaviour, handling of commands and user interface, just to cite a few examples.

Check out the Bug report / suggestions for improvement threads, to form an opinion.

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There is nothing unhistorical in German gun ranges, any gun in the game has historical characteristics and can shoot far than maximum 2km map size.

If for some reason you can't play the game without all units set to hold position mode first, all you should do is select all your units in the beginning of the mission and left-click lowest left button in orders panel to set it. Unlike ToW1, this mode stays. However, it's recomennded to turn off hold mode in most cases, since units tend to survive more when they can maneouver (tank in hold mode can end in situation when it is fired upon by the enemy but can't fire back due to gun traverse limit or something else). Even without hold mode vehicles maneover only if this is necessary or enemy is close, but obstructed by something and they can't target him.

The type of formation is memorized for a group, this is described in the manual. If you form a group using standard Ctrl+number keystroke and set the desired formation, it will stay when you select this group by pressing this number key later.

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There is nothing unhistorical in German gun ranges, any gun in the game has historical characteristics and can shoot far than maximum 2km map size.

Well, but the current spotting mode makes it impossible for tanks to spot let's say AT guns (which are positioned in the open !, like in the mission featured in the demo - i forgot the scenario name) beyond let's say ~700 meters, so even with a clear LOS ("attack ground" line/arrow is all red) the tanks CANNOT SEE beyond that range, which is unrealistic. In the demo, the 2 AT guns on the hill (at the end of the valley) can't be spotted by the player's tanks, even if they moved as close as 500 meters (I would have to measure the distance, I am estimating here right now) towards the AT guns. The tanks get hit without ever knowing where the gun fire came from, and without ever being able to spot THEM, although they're not camouflaged/concealed.

The reason may be that those AT guns are positioned in spots with thick grass, but i am just guessing here, you might be able to provide an answer here, Sneaksie.

Grass can't cover AT guns that weigh 700 - 1300 kg, seriously. Tanks should still be able to spot them at medium/long ranges.

I think it's rather a decision to make the scenario design more thrilling than anything else.

That's what i meant with unhistorical ranges. German tanks could spot targets at >2 km, when having an unobscured LOS, and they used to hit with the 3rd or 4th shot at ranges between 1300 and 2000 meters. (As I described in the "TOW2 is a sniper war?"-thread.)

If for some reason you can't play the game without all units set to hold position mode first, all you should do is select all your units in the beginning of the mission and left-click lowest left button in orders panel to set it.

I actually do that. But new players will struggle with that. Also, why don't you let the user decide whether he wants his units to act independently or not?

HOLD always on is annoying, for most users.

The type of formation is memorized for a group, this is described in the manual. If you form a group using standard Ctrl+number keystroke and set the desired formation, it will stay when you select this group by pressing this number key later.

Yes I know that, but the forum didn't let me edit my post when I figured that I should have explained it in detail. The formation won't be memorized when you select an entire infantry squad (for example), this is disturbing in cases where you don't want to create groups, or where all the number-keys/group keys are already occupied with other groups. The formation should be memorized for any given formation selected/grouped by the user. That's what i meant with clickology, the game features a certain amount of clickology, and where some of the click-fest could be reduced/abolished easily, by tweaking game design/UI design, or your politics. :)

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