Taki Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hello. I downloaded the Patch and game feels better/diffrent now. As in know that noone cares on my feelings but want to have hard facts on Topics i observed another good thing (not always bad things) with the patch coming. I played my reference Scenario wich is the first campaign Game of the CMSF Standard Game. Attacking the border of syria. As i played the Game i start seeing fleeing syrian units! Question: Is that new AI Plans in that Campaign? Or can i jump in the Air know Unit that got broken can rout?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I observed something similar in a small test scenario I setup to get to grips with the scenario editor. Uncon fighters ran out of a house which was under heavy small arms fire from several Blufor squads so I guess this is some kind of routing prior to the ! mark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Yep, it's definitely the "bugger off" behaviour Steve said was in the new patch. The fact that the Syrians run away now, couple with the fact that they are much more willing to surrender en mass rather than be wiped out, makes their behaviour a lot more realistic in my opinion. It also gives you an incentive to do some pretty mean things to them, like have a squad cover the rear of a building so you can mow the little devils down when they leg it out the back! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taki Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 I hope it makes the Syrians now more fluid. Like fall ack, regroup, set another Ambush etc. As it was till today it was all way too static. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Don't think this will happen Taki. Routing units will be shot to pieces and will not remain very combat effective (not that they were particularly combat effective in the first place ;P ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 You have to be careful: evading enemy fire does not equate routing (where the soldiers vanish from the map). One of the new nasty tricks of the AI is to move to the backside of the attacked house to set up a deadly ambush for everybody that is trying to enter that house. Best counter-measure is area-fire (=grenade throwing) around the corner and attacking from both sides of the building. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I think that the key issue is that the "Bugger off" behaviour is not routing. It's getting out when a malleting seems in the offing. I had a Syrian airborne unit bug out of the building I'd sent them into, suffering one major and two minor wounds rather than a more severe kicking. Likewise a number of enemy squads got out of getting squashed by my fire support because they buggered off rather than trying to hide in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Troops of all kinds redeploy. What occurs next is dependent on all the conditions one would think. When players get a few games under their belts they'll notice many a new laid defense after troops bugger off. During testing I observed a Syrian Mech infantry sqd take off after an M1 tank round made a new door opening for them...Oh no..the dumb bastards are running forward... Now my thoughts went to bug reports immediately. What those Syrian troops actually did was redeploy into a building out of site of the M1. Couple of minutes later that advancing M1 lay smoldering from the rear end RPG shot from my now incredibly brave and smart troops. They finished off the crew with rifle fire. All this done with no input from me. Players will see many different responses after troops bug out. But isn't that what happens to troops under stress? By the way: the normal re-deploy is to the direction of the maps setup (friendly)...but can be influenced heavily by the best local cover...this apparently was the case in my example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Troops of all kinds redeploy. What occurs next is dependent on all the conditions one would think. When players get a few games under their belts they'll notice many a new laid defense after troops bugger off. During testing I observed a Syrian Mech infantry sqd take off after an M1 tank round made a new door opening for them...Oh no..the dumb bastards are running forward... Now my thoughts went to bug reports immediately. What those Syrian troops actually did was redeploy into a building out of site of the M1. Couple of minutes later that advancing M1 lay smoldering from the rear end RPG shot from my now incredibly brave and smart troops. They finished off the crew with rifle fire. All this done with no input from me. Players will see many different responses after troops bug out. But isn't that what happens to troops under stress? By the way: the normal re-deploy is to the direction of the maps setup (friendly)...but can be influenced heavily by the best local cover...this apparently was the case in my example. Thanks for sharing that. Maybe sad experience for you, but a nice read for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 After spending a LOT of time this weekend playtesting a few missions where the AI controls some Conscript troops with Poor morale, I have been seeing a LOT of this behaviour and while it sure as hell looks like they're routing, they're just repositioning to somewhere safer. I am still seeing those orangey brown '!'s appearing occassionally so they still rout normally too. In a dense urban environment, this new AI behaviour is making Blue's job MUCH more challenging as the enemy won't stand in the face of enemy fire for long and die. Instead, they take up new positions deeper in the urban jungle and they still have the fight in them so be wary. I'm having to adapt my tactics to take account of this behaviour. It also make MY job a bit easier as my troops won't stay in harm's way for long when I'm not babysitting them either. IMNSHO this is one of the best features of the new patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I was really pulling for this feature. In a way, it makes Blue's job easier and harder at the same time. You can definitely use it to your advantage, if you take the time to position a "kill watch" out the back of the targeted building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Troops of all kinds redeploy. What occurs next is dependent on all the conditions one would think. When players get a few games under their belts they'll notice many a new laid defense after troops bugger off. During testing I observed a Syrian Mech infantry sqd take off after an M1 tank round made a new door opening for them...Oh no..the dumb bastards are running forward... Now my thoughts went to bug reports immediately. What those Syrian troops actually did was redeploy into a building out of site of the M1. Couple of minutes later that advancing M1 lay smoldering from the rear end RPG shot from my now incredibly brave and smart troops. They finished off the crew with rifle fire. All this done with no input from me. During same battle i aw same action. I lost many riflemen because i thought building was already empty, while actaully enemy was just opposite direction of building, then before reaching building they appeared back into windows... Or atleast i think it went like that. From time after time they seemed to reappear, and few times i gaught them by supprise as they pulled away from windows because heavy fire they received from vehicles and i immediatly rushed my men into building. I was storming building with engineers supported by Bradleys, which unleashed hell. Syrians pull back (severe casualities). I take the badly damaged building. After pulling back from building behind near by fence Syrians have still their RPG-gunner alive. My engineers opens fire from building, Syrians fire back. After short moment *CRASH* building comes down, there went two squads of engineers. :eek: I quess that was the change positions feature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 After spending a LOT of time this weekend playtesting a few missions where the AI controls some Conscript troops with Poor morale, I have been seeing a LOT of this behaviour and while it sure as hell looks like they're routing, they're just repositioning to somewhere safer. I am still seeing those orangey brown '!'s appearing occassionally so they still rout normally too. In a dense urban environment, this new AI behaviour is making Blue's job MUCH more challenging as the enemy won't stand in the face of enemy fire for long and die. Instead, they take up new positions deeper in the urban jungle and they still have the fight in them so be wary. I'm having to adapt my tactics to take account of this behaviour. It also make MY job a bit easier as my troops won't stay in harm's way for long when I'm not babysitting them either. IMNSHO this is one of the best features of the new patch. This was the conclusion I came to as well. It also made the orange exclamation mark MUCH more palatable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogNative Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 PT's "they're just repositioning to somewhere safer." is my take as well. I was using a tiny 208x208 but very intense fire fight, CAS, mortars, etc. map and swapping out troops from low level Unconventional to elite Airborne Engineers. It appear v1.11 makes for a tougher and more realistic fight for Blue forces. which is an improvement in my evaluation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handihoc Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 When players get a few games under their belts they'll notice many a new laid defense after troops bugger off. Players will see many different responses after troops bug out. But isn't that what happens to troops under stress? QUOTE] Yes, when I first played 1.11 I noticed the enemy 'panicking' and running much more quickly than before. Later I realised they'd actually done the sensible thing, which was to hightail it out of an immediate danger zone because they'd been heavily targeted by my units. As with you, MarkEzra, I have since discovered more than once that those survivors had simply redeployed out of sight, and were lying in wait for me as I advanced. Great bit of tweaking! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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