All Unit types of War In this Game?

[Spellir_74]

All unit types of War In this Game?

Well?

And I don't mean are all the different variants of MkIII and MIV tanks here.

I mean are the Marders and PzJg I and R35 all here?...

-251/22 [PaK40 on 251]?

The Sturm Panzer I (funny looking tower thing) and Sturm IG33 and sIG p33 H & M?...

Befel wgs?

Pioneers PII L tank? (No way)

PII D!!?

Any special qualites of infantry?...

Medics offer some kind of healing or preservational benefit to wounded they connect to? (medical vehicles increase this ability)?

Pioneers clear bridges and minefields etc? Lay them too?

Combat train supplies coming up from rear? (Combat train personal brought up after victorious battle; makes game far more interesting than just ending after dead men tallied. Also getting into enemy's rear so as to destroy his is one of the points of battle no?)

Flak and schleppers? (vehicles and horses!)

Prisoners taken?

-sdk250(+variants) carry up to 4 men!

-German 3 or 4 man crew + mortar 80mm

50mm mortar teams?

(250s carry 2 HMG crews+equip or 1 mortar crew and equip)

All HMGs and guns are transportable and moveable?

75mm IG + 54-5 man crew.

150mm sIG33 + Crew

FalshirmJager and gebirg(mtn) light guns

Post battle deployment of defensive positions (PAK Front etc); Artillery train (pre SP/ 1943 --ie towed guns and vehicles and horses!) needed

Survey men to plot artillery etc distances (Hell, even media troops)

French and captured AUV thingy?

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Has anyone seen a list of available stock and mod units I could be directed to?

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Regarding stuff modded...

I understand that captured variants are cool. And endless variants on what is already there is nice too. BUT WWII games NEED most of the things by now (including combat train of the battalions Rgts and Divs).

Note on 'tweaking' armour and armament and visiblity to /from unit (ie 'destroyability' and firepower of vehicles and troops)...

1)This leads to 'unbalanced' game.

2)Motivated by players' desire to have favorite device(s) be more powerful-- definitely leads to unbalanced game!

(I see right now in this forum a debate still rates about this. (Multi player sucks because _people do_. Simple really.))

It seems to me that if one wanted to and knew how to mod a game, one would start with creating the above units (which few if any games have), before tweaking files to reflect their _opinions_ about 'realism' and 'challange'. (Multi player sucks because _people do_. Simple really.)

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Thanks for abiding my semi rant.

[JasonC]

"are the Marders and PzJg I and R35 all here?..."

Sure. And captured French tanks, and Hungarian Toldi self propelled 40mm AA guns, etc, etc. On the Marders, there are Marder IIs and IIIs, early models with 76mm distinguished from later ones with 75mm, later still with less armor. Not one Marder, 4 of them.

There are scores of SPW models, also PSW models. Did they get every single number, can't say so, there are too many. But all those with operationally significant numbers, sure.

sIG and Bisons sure, Brummbars too.

There aren't command tanks as separate items, the focus is on fighting vehicles, but there are two types of some armored cars where the only difference it whether they have a radio. And yes, it gives them an advantage, shorter command delays for new orders.

There are 4 varieties of Panzer II, two early models distinguished by bolted on or single thicker plate armor, the rare super armored type, and the late war recon arm Lynx type.

"special qualites of infantry?..."

There are scores - grenadiers are distinguished from jaegers or fusiliers, pioneers have their demolition charges and flamethrowers, panzer grenadiers and fallschirmjaeger have more LMGs (also sturmkompanies), Luftwaffe ground infantry aren't so special, SS are different from standard, volksgrenadier formations use different small arms mixes, the volksturm get no heavy weapons (but plenty of automatics and panzerfausts), there are gebirgsjaegers, panzer recon infantry use smaller squads, and along with panzergrenadiers come in motorized and armored varieties. There are also cavalry squads and ski formations. That is just the Germans. There are also Finns, with Sissi distinct from line, Hungarians, Italians, Romanians, all with their national squad weapons and support weapons. Russians have mech forces and rifle forces, the mech motorized or SMG-riders, motorcycle recon and pioneer, the rifle have a wide variety of line changing with the year and formation date, SMG storm companies, two varieties of recon, pioneers, and both arms have Guards or regular. Also ski battalions, cavalry, partisans, even Russia-supporting Romanians and Poles late in the war.

Medical isn't covered (CMSF added some of that, not a lot), though end of game losses are apportioned to KIA and WIA, and you can lose significant victory points getting your bailed out tank crews killed instead of saving them by retreat.

Pioneers clear minefields, only surface ones without using charges, for detected buried fields they blow them with charges. They don't lay them in battlefield time. They can blow smaller bridges with their demo charges as well; bigger ones they simply don't have enough.

The only modeling of supply is in operations (linked series of battles on the same map) rather than scenarios proper, and simply ups the ammo state of the units engaged, by amounts that can vary with an operational supply state. Some abandoned vehicles can also be recovered sometimes.

"getting into enemy's rear so as to destroy his"

You'd have to make a scenario of it. In the tactical fight with front line forces, surrounding them will subject them to flanking fires (units don't like being shot at from multiple angles, one outside their frontal arc, etc). But on a 30 minute time scale in a firefight, they aren't realistically going to succumb to supply deprivation.

Flak and air support both, flak ground mounts and some self propelled, vehicles to carry men and guns, with transport ratings to ensure they only lift about what they could (without counting everything to the last man).

No horses or motorcycles I am afraid. But as a scenario designer I find jeeps or the national equivalent work fine for motorcycle infantry (since the smallest personal units are half squads or small teams anyway). In winter, ski troops can approximate cavalry (faster with them on, lose them if hit too hard by fire or voluntarily to use some forms of movement etc). But realistically cavalry mostly dismounts to fight anyway.

Prisoners taken?

Certainly, and they can even be freed if left unattended or friendlies drive off their guards.

-sdk250(+variants) carry up to 4 men!

Plenty of varieties of those, with 20mm, 37mm, 75mm, 81mm mortar, and MG only for transport, with a half squad limit. The panzer recon squads are 8 men, so when those are split and mounted in SPW 250s, you get 4 men to a 'track, plus the vehicle crew.

German 81mm appear as foot teams with 6 men each (some are the ammo operation), or can be called fire from forward observers, with 4 and 6 tube batteries, line or radio equipped FOs - and also on SPW 251/2 and the SPW 250 'track mortars. The 251/2 is a particular terror due to its sizable ammo load.

50mm mortar teams?

Certainly, early war for the Germans, Russians have them throughout pretty much. Plus their 82s of course, and both 82s and 120s off map and called in by forward observor.

You didn't ask about the artillery, but it is all there, off board and much of it on. You get FOs with single batteries of guns and definite ammunition limits, with the lower echelon types faster to respond to fire mission requests. They can also be used for preplanned "timed" barrages ("map fire"). Rockets and tube, all the calibers pretty much. (OK, there aren't railway guns, but there are 21 cm Morser and Russian 8 inch, and 300mm rockets). On map everything from 28/20 sPzB to 150mm sIG.

"All HMGs and guns are transportable and moveable?"

Sure, and German MGs can ride tank decks (transport class 2) while most heavier Russian ones cannot (transport class 3) - what with the former being dismantle-able and the latter wheeled themselves.

Heavier MG and mortar teams move at infantry "slow" speed, slower than fast squads, but can walk themselves around. They have half-minute set up times once they halt before they can be brought into action.

Guns can all be pushed into position, with a speed determined by their transport class, but are quite slow (slower than realistic frankly), really only meant to make the push from behind the woods where dropped off, forward to a location with line of sight etc. They also have set up times, a few minutes being typical (but an 88, a lot longer). The heaviest AA guns on map are immobile, but only those.

Sure there are infantry guns and you can pull the little ones behind a kubelwagen if you want, but a sIG needs to use a SPW 251, Sdkfz, or truck.

"FalshirmJager and gebirg(mtn) light guns"

How about their recoilless rifles in 75mm and 105mm caliber?

"Post battle deployment of defensive positions"

Only a consideration in Operations again. With suitable delay you get foxholes at set up - in scenarios, whether the defender gets foxholes is a scenario parameter (they do by default) --- and they can get extra fall back positions or not. Then you can also add bunkers and trenches and mines and wire and target registration points for presighted artillery barrages.

As for survey men, just forward observors to call in fire missions, and also the TRP "fortification type" above.

Plenty of captured stuff - French equipment in German use includes Somua tanks and a few others, plus 75/38 PAK (which are "French 75s"). But also German T-34s, Russian StuGs, Russian lend lease equipment (Shermans, Stuarts, about 6 varieties of Valentine, etc)

[Spellir_74]

>Jason

"Sure. And captured French tanks, and Hungarian..."

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Nice post Jason.

It seems I'm going to have to get the 'king' (CM1x).

Just to see for myself, if for no other reason.

[Corvidae]

Spellir, Dont listen to JasonC... Well actualy DO listen to him. He knows pretty much all there is to know about the game.... but dont tell him I said that.