Some help with ATGMs

[cmfan]

Hello everyone,

I've recently started playing CMSF (along with the Marine expansion) and while I'm having a lot of fun I'm having some trouble making the transition from CM1 principally, I think, due to ATGMs. I think I have a rough sense of how to use them at a tactical level, but I'm not sure if I understand how the game models the mechanics of their employment. I've been doing searches on this board and while I've found some helpful tips I still have a couple of questions I'm hoping game veterans can help me with.

1. I've been trying to "scoot and shoot" with my Bradleys but nearly every time they get in a firing position and spot a tank they immediately pop smoke and back up*. I've tried including a delay command at the firing point (15 seconds) but then they usually just sit there without engaging or worse, begin firing their 25mm cannons rather than their TOWs - which usually results in the enemy spotting them and killing them.

2. In real life one the advantages of the Javelin system is that its fire and forget. However in the game my Javelin tank hunter teams always fire their missile, stay in position and then proceed to get plastered by return fire from any surviving enemy armor or infantry until the one minute action phase is over. Is there a way to have them fire and then immediately move while in WEGO mode? Perhaps through the use of a pause command?

3. These two questions are related to, but not limited to the effective employment of ATGMs. A) Are hull down positions WYSIWYG?. B)From what point is LOS determined on vehicles such as Bradlys? Their optics? The middle of the turret or even, when the TC is unbuttoned, the TC himself?

*Actually this is a general problem I have with the Bradly FIST vehicle and other vehicles designed to spot artillery or call for CAS. Regardless of whether or not I have a hull down position the Bradly FIST will always pop smoke and back up at the first sight of enemy armor - even at ranges close to 2K. This makes me wonder if I shouldn't just park this vehicle in an out of the way place for any scenario that doesn't use an extremely large map - assuming this behavior changes if the Bradly knows its outside the range of a targets weapon systems.

[TheVulture]

Hello everyone,

2. In real life one the advantages of the Javelin system is that its fire and forget. However in the game my Javelin tank hunter teams always fire their missile, stay in position and then proceed to get plastered by return fire from any surviving enemy armor or infantry until the one minute action phase is over. Is there a way to have them fire and then immediately move while in WEGO mode? Perhaps through the use of a pause command?

Javelin teams currently insist on reloading before they will move after firing, and there is no way to get around this. Future patches may or may not change this. (I seem to remember that in real life the javelin can be fired remotely too, so the firer can position the unit and get away from it before firing. You can't do that in-game either).

3. These two questions are related to, but not limited to the effective employment of ATGMs. A) Are hull down positions WYSIWYG?. B)From what point is LOS determined on vehicles such as Bradlys? Their optics? The middle of the turret or even, when the TC is unbuttoned, the TC himself?

Hull down is WYSIWYG

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1094570#post1094570 contains some info on this: there are 6 or more heights used for LoS determination (prone, kneeling, standing for infantry, and a variety for vehicles of different sizes. Very likely the middle of the turret is one. No idea if the unbuttoned TC or periscope can be used for spotting seperately - I have a vague recollection of 'no' on the periscope though.

[TheVulture]

Just done a quick test with some M1A1 spotting syrian infantry from a hull-down position. In a position where both tanks just failed to have LoS to the syrian troops, unbuttoning one immediately allowed it to spot an enemy (and shoot him with the MG), where he hadn't been able to spot him while buttoned. The LoS tool still failed to give LoS to the spot (I believe it uses the turret center position).

[Big Poppa Pump]

1. I've seen the same thing with Bradleys. They will fire the main cannon but not the TOWs. See my post in the stickied "shoot and scoot" thread above (should be the last postone). I think its a bug.

[cmfan]

I don't suppose the reload time for the Javelin is under a minute. I could then maybe use a pause command long enough that allowed them to fire, reload and then move. I'll give it a try and see if it works... The Javeline system is an awesome weapon in the game, I'm just a little disappointing that I can't seem to get one of its best real world survivability features to work.

I really hope Bradleys aren't bugged. I'm going to do a couple of tests when I get the chance but its really annoying getting my guys roasted because they won't use their main tank killing weapon. So far I've actually only scored kills employing TOW missiles using the Marine AT LAV.

Thanks for the info on hull down and LOS behavior guys! I think this will go a long way towards improving my game.

[Big Poppa Pump]

CMfan.

I gae an area target command to a javalin squad coupled with a 30 second pause ollowed by a move commad. Result:

The squad fired the javelin waited the remainder of the pause and moved. The soilder with the jav was left behind to reload and after completing the reload rejoined his squad.

I would think the reolad routine would take secondary precedence to the move command after the pause was completed but there could be some technixcal reason why this takes place.