Atago Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Ive noticed that too. Even when I know (having played this same dang mission 5 times now) that bad guys are in a particular building, I can't spot them unless I get some poor soul to wave his ass out the window so they'll try to shoot it off. THEN I see them. I was hoping my snipers could spot some bad guys peeking out windows or over the lips of trenches, but it doesn't seem to happen. I think my snipers need to clean their scopes or something, hell I'm not a Marine and I could spot a bad guy peeking out a window eventually! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Of course we got complaints about the Thunder campaign being too easy. One thing that I notice gives people a lot of trouble is with the difference in fighting style. With the Army it was much more technology intensive. The brunt of the fight could be carried out by the armor, Bradleys, M1's, and to some extent MGSs backed up by the plentiful Javelins. For the Marines you have to shift your focus. Infantry is much more important to Marine tactics than to the Army. Marine squads hit hard and can take more punishment than their Army counterparts. They are the primary assault arm, everyone else is to support them. You really have to adjust your thinking with the Marines. You can't just run in and level everything with 120mm, 25mm, and Javelin fire, you have to send groups of guys in to dig the bad guys out. Luckily this is something the Marines are VERY good at. The campaign is hard because the designers tried to make the missions as realistic as possible without making it a US firepower demonstration. There are many other really good scenarios that you can cut your teeth on to get used to the Marine fighting style. Think of the campaign as graduate school. Everyone has different skill levels, and I admit mine at CMSF are not the best. I've moved on to other things, I can get frustrated at work - don't need it at home in my leisure time! I guess it's good - I am bitching because I WANT to play but can't - better than bitching 'cause I bought the module and don't like it. I'm a wimp, it's too hard for me - what can I say? I don't have the patience, time or inclination to keep banging away. All I want is an option to call for reinforcements or something. Even if I have to play 5 times before that option shows up, that'd be OK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Of course we got complaints about the Thunder campaign being too easy. One thing that I notice gives people a lot of trouble is with the difference in fighting style. With the Army it was much more technology intensive. The brunt of the fight could be carried out by the armor, Bradleys, M1's, and to some extent MGSs backed up by the plentiful Javelins. For the Marines you have to shift your focus. Infantry is much more important to Marine tactics than to the Army. Marine squads hit hard and can take more punishment than their Army counterparts. They are the primary assault arm, everyone else is to support them. You really have to adjust your thinking with the Marines. You can't just run in and level everything with 120mm, 25mm, and Javelin fire, you have to send groups of guys in to dig the bad guys out. Luckily this is something the Marines are VERY good at. The campaign is hard because the designers tried to make the missions as realistic as possible without making it a US firepower demonstration. There are many other really good scenarios that you can cut your teeth on to get used to the Marine fighting style. Think of the campaign as graduate school. Sgt, you are pointing something werry important out. Indeed you have to change fighting tactics when switching between army and marines units, so that the Marine campaign is so hard is mostly due to that we are spoiled with all the Armys tech gear. Could also be the reason why I like Marines more then Army, those AAV7s resembles the fighting tactics we had when I was in the mechanized infantry, wich also stressed that the APC was a combat transport only while the fighting was done by the infantry. /Thomas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Yeah, the AAV reminds me a lot of the M113 but with a lot more room. It is definitely transpo and fire support only, not an assault asset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Hope this works... May be spoilers to some that haven't played this one... If it DOES, this is taken in the assault on Pooh mission just after reinforcements arrive. I have had my best success to date moving them up to the right then assembling most of them in the blue circle. Then I move toward the center and back with my Infantry, leaving the armor hiding behind buildings for the most part until or unless I am fairly sure I can pull them forward to support http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo97/Kzinbane/Assault1.jpg This shot shows pretty much the same thing 'cept from the other side of the map. Bad guys all over the place, hiding very well - can't usually spot them without loosing men or vehicles! http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo97/Kzinbane/Assault2.jpg From another angle - the main highway with some of the objectives showing. This is where the Syrian tanks arrive, I have no problems handling them and I have spotters on the hill over to the right, and in some of the multi-story buildings in the center. I can call down death on anything I see - problem is seeing it! http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo97/Kzinbane/Assault3.jpg Let's see if this works!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Looks good so far. thats how I moved initially. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 This is a while later, after I've moved my guys forward to their staging are. Arrows show planned movement of some of the tanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Well, that worked but the photo was too big... anyway this one shows my intended movement And here's my main problem area! Bad guys all over in here Blue thin lines are my attempts at infantry approach Thick blue line is my future plan, stage here for move toward center And finally - different angle. Bad guys in circles, BMP, RPG. I get creamed in here for some reason. Still hidden over there are at least one tank, bmp, MG nest and more troops. Arrows show my intentions (short term then longer term) I seem to run out of time or have to go too fast and leave enemy forces on my flanks. I can't tell how much artillery I am going to need so am hesitant to use it! What if I really need it later?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Still looks good. Remember to have infantry ahead of your tanks. In urban warfare the tanks supports the infantry! so if your tank gonna go around a corner, make sure the infantry already have eyes beyond that corner or your valuable M1s might hit a RPG. /Thomas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 What's your arty situation? If you are having problems with that building complex then drop back and nuke it from orbit. Or you can have your tanks pop rounds into it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpheart23 Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 drop back and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 My main problem is time. I find the pressure of having to move fast inevitably forces me to get guys killed too fast. In the central objective for example, I sent 2 full squads in and they all got destroyed by Syrian forces that were inside. I don't have nearly enough artillery to 'nuke' all the areas I end up having problems with! Last go round (embarrassingly enough, 7th try ) I DID manage to actually get one acceptable! That's improvement. I did not secure ANY objective (again). Bad guys in the back corner objective were managing to get ATGM's on target, and I was out of Arty to do anything. Do the Helo's work at all in an area fire mode vs infantry? I want the Iowa! Leveling a few buildings would at least make me feel better. Jeez but I'd love to see how someone got through this one! Question - if I play on 2nd level difficulty (can't remember what it is) - do the question marks remain on an area even if the target originally sighted there isn't in view? That may actually help me get at some ATGM and RPG firers. I need some way to put a mark on a suspected bad guy - not having to remember where they are all at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afreu Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I used the large building next to the mg bunker as observation position for my recon troops. You can conquer it even before your reinforcements arrive. I used the LAVs as direct fire support and than assaulted with the scouts. It's something I only managed after a couple of reloads. From this position you have a perfect view on most enemy AFVs but it's a perfect target for enemy arty as well (keep that in mind or you will loose your recon troops). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 I used the large building next to the mg bunker as observation position for my recon troops. You can conquer it even before your reinforcements arrive. I used the LAVs as direct fire support and than assaulted with the scouts. It's something I only managed after a couple of reloads. From this position you have a perfect view on most enemy AFVs but it's a perfect target for enemy arty as well (keep that in mind or you will loose your recon troops). Hmm. I must be doing something very wrong. I had multiple squads badly smashed up trying to take that cluster of buildings (the scull-n-crossbones). The bad guys have places they can hide in there where my AFV's can't fire without exposing themselves to tanks and/or infantry AT weapons fire. When I DO get in there the tanks typically seem to know, and fire at the infantry before I can sneak in an a Javelin. I end up spending half the tiem I have just digging out the ticks so I can get on with assaulting the center. I'm lucky if I can get the center before the time runs out, let alone getting the other 3 objectives! I run out of artillery & have only the 2 helo's left to help and virtually half the map to go through still. I see little hope to get through this. If I go back to the previous mission and go the 'other' route (there are 2 choices) - will I bypass this "winnie the pooh of death" mission entirely? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I had a thought (it happens sometimes) - would this scenario be easier to do WEGO instead of realtime? Maybe that's what's causing me trouble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 It might. There is a tendency in realtime to forget the overall plan and get stuck with one group while the rest of the force just sits around and gets shot at. WEGO helps you to slow down and see the field better but you will have lest fine control over your units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 End positions of my last run through. Total victory with a total of about 50 casualties, an LAV, and 3 AAV's. Punched straight up the middle using choppers to take out enemy armor and lots of Heavy/Quick missions from Lima Battery. Small arty was used for quick reation and smoke. Used lots of smoke, both handheld and arty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piecekeeper Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The campaign tree on the homepage doesn't seem to be right. I don't understand it and it doesn't got the right names for the missions. ( where is " decisions decisions" etc......) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 End positions of my last run through. Total victory with a total of about 50 casualties, an LAV, and 3 AAV's. Punched straight up the middle using choppers to take out enemy armor and lots of Heavy/Quick missions from Lima Battery. Small arty was used for quick reation and smoke. Used lots of smoke, both handheld and arty. Hmm, I've been trying to be sneakier and make end around runs but maybe the blast up the middle idea will work. Nothing to loose for me, I'm still totally unable to win this one and move on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Remember your goal. Your primary focus needs to be on taking Eeyore and Pooh. The other missions are oncall, which means that you can do them if you want. You can seal off the flanks with support troops and arty supported by a couple AFVs and concentrate your main effort on siezing the objectives. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Well, I tried the up the middle idea and got TOTALLY creamed, LOL! I put almost all my initial forces on the right side and went up and took the annoying building cluster from the enemy, destroyed a couple BMP's and a tank that were up there. So far So good. My first battlegroup arrives, I send them forward toward the main, center objective and find that at least one ATGM over on the left side has a view (ouch #1). I take the two multi-story buildings and set up a firing position on the central objective. Enemy tanks arrive... I bring down a bombardment on them (155mm) from my one spotter on the hill to the left. My trucks arrive. Well now, appears they "teleport" in right where a couple enemy tanks can see them. All but one truck is toast before I can even react. I was doing fairly good toward the center, had blasted a hole in the wall and was about to get some troops in there - taking fire form the right though, needed some arty fire. When virtually my entire truck convoy was toasted the enemy won a morale victory and I surrendered in disgust. Guess next time I need to leave a tank or two over there to make sure no bad guys can see them when my trucks "beam down". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 There is an updated campaign coming out soon that corrects that problem. Honestly I thought I had it corrected but the AI turned out to be even smarter than I thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atago Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 I have tried this baby a couple more times now. Still can't get sufficient results to move on, always get tossed back to the scenario before it. I'm officially ready to cheat now. If I can get a save game that is near or at the end of this one from someone so I can move on I'll do it. Alternatively is someone can do a really good walk through of how they managed it that would even be better as I may learn something. Winning this one, even with hand holding would feel better than outright bypassing it - but I'm stuck and will have to just shelve it if I can't get past or through. Yes, I'm weak and impatient and totally annoyed at my inability to get through this. If ya can't climb the mountain get a helicopter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Dufva Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You don't need all of your force to win this battle. Scouts, snipers, 2 platoons of infantry and 2 tanks is really all you need. And of course choppers and arty. The rest of your troops you can keep hidden as a reserve out of the troubles way. I you wish, I can send you a detailed AAR using RT and iron skill level. Casualties 3 dead, 11 wounded, one LAV. No cheating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I "won" campaign... "won" because last mission ended with me begging for cease fire (which AI approves automatically) in tactical situation where human opponent would probably have approved only surrender from me. Salutation for those who are to be held responsible for such hard campaign. I swear i felt great relief when campaign finally was over, you may color me impressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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