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Marine campaign - totally flustrated!


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Well, I got further before getting creamed my last run. I got most of my forces much further forward skirting up the right side of the map. I think my main issue is the need for speed vs the requirement that I take it slow. If I go too fast I "find" enemy forces the hard way and they decimate my squads or AFV's. If I go too slow they call down artillery, resulting in the same outcome (lots of little red splotches).

Those atgm and atg's are like ticks, you bombard the heck out of an area and they remain, dang things! I took out every enemy tank this time at least, and all but a couple of their BMP's - it's the enemy infantry and artillery that seems to be the main problem. I am hearby going to cheat, end the mission - print screen on where they're all at, and try that!

$*#*@ mission... grumble...

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I'm up to the 'Debouch to Disaster' mission but I'm worried about the size of the force given to me.

Because of the heavy losses I took in the last two missions 'Pooh' and 'Milk Run' I have only been given one M1A1, two AAV's and about 20 half dead men with no long range AT gear.

After an hour into this I've now got about five men left with no hope of advancing unless I get some reinforcements ASAP.

This looks like one of George's maps so I'm trusting that he won't leave me for dead in the desert.

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From the campaign briefing:

This is going to be a long operation. The Syrians have a large, well equipped army, and are fighting with the home ground advantage. Take care of your forces, and they will take care of you.

:)

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I'm up to the 'Debouch to Disaster' mission but I'm worried about the size of the force given to me.

Because of the heavy losses I took in the last two missions 'Pooh' and 'Milk Run' I have only been given one M1A1, two AAV's and about 20 half dead men with no long range AT gear.

After an hour into this I've now got about five men left with no hope of advancing unless I get some reinforcements ASAP.

This looks like one of George's maps so I'm trusting that he won't leave me for dead in the desert.

Ahh... Errmmm... Oh look up there a skylark! <slinks of into the shadows>

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From the campaign briefing:

This is going to be a long operation. The Syrians have a large, well equipped army, and are fighting with the home ground advantage. Take care of your forces, and they will take care of you.

:)

Fair enough but there were pretty tough missions before this one, it wasn't like I was using human wave tactics or anything. And that's a pretty ambiguous statement I don't know of any missions where you'd not try to take care with your forces.

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There needs to be a way to bypass a mission so as to continue on with a campaign. I'm sure that they are winnable if you feel like taking the time to figure it out, but at some point the fun factor starts to dwindle. I've shelved the thing now that I've gotten slammed again, even knowing after several plays where most of the AI forces are - just not enjoying it any more. Sounds like others are running into issues too - down to only a few forces left...

Maybe some save game files can be shared that were done near the end of some of the hard battles so that us wimps that can't win them can at least keep going? Perhaps future campaigns can have a "HELP!" button that allows for reinforcements that otherwise wouldn't be there? Emergency aircraft call-down? Let us edit campaign battles?

Bottom line for me - I WANT to keep playing, I WANT to keep having fun, I WANT to look forward to purchasing more CMSF products - but if things get too hard I find other things to do.

We need cheat codes (well, OK - I need them :o)

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You dont need cheat codes, you need to learn tactics, SOPs and strategi. Nothing more - nothing less.

I have save game files but aint gonna share it as its betther that you learn from this battle instead.

take a print screen from the battle and post it here so we can see what situation you are in, let see if we can guide you thrue it instead of giving you cheats.

Cheers!

/Thomas

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You dont need cheat codes, you need to learn tactics, SOPs and strategi. Nothing more - nothing less.

I have save game files but aint gonna share it as its betther that you learn from this battle instead.

take a print screen from the battle and post it here so we can see what situation you are in, let see if we can guide you thrue it instead of giving you cheats.

Cheers!

/Thomas

Chainsaw - Yeah, I know. If I ever win this one without cheating it'll feel much better. Forgive my moment of weakness! :o

I was hoping someone would post a bit of an AAR perhaps to show how they managed this beast.

I thought I had gotten fairly good at storming buildings in previous scenarios, bringing up supporting AFV's once things are safe for them. In this one many squads "find" enemy RPG's the hard way, and the Anti tank weapons have enough range to smack my armor anywhere they can see it. If I bring armor forward I seem to loose it, if I don't - I loose the infantry. If I take my time and be careful the artillery comes down OR the clock runs out. I think if I had another half hour I 'might' be able to take some of the objectives. I have managed to get the one objective in the back right of the map, but my attempts to roll up the enemy from the right hasn't worked well. I can get my troops and armor up there about half way but attempts to assault from this side hasn't worked out. So far I've tried up the right, up the left and split half and half. Maybe I'll try right up the middle next! I'm re-learning many of my old navy swearing habits, I'll tell you.

How do you upload screenshots? I can do a print screen & give it a whirl.

Sigh... I should stick with naval games, there was a reason I was in the Navy not the Army or Marines!

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Atago, you might try winding back a couple of battles (ie, starting with an old save), then coming forward again to ensure you have sufficient forces for this battle.

I'm pretty sure that it's my ineptness not a lack of forces that are stopping me. I have a whole %*$@! load of forces. The only obvious lack I see is that one of my 81mm mortars is empty at game start, and that's the least of my problems. Yes, it'd be nice to have it - but that isn't what's killing me off!

Now if I could save some other stuff from earlier missions - like some F-18 strikes... that would possibly help! There are a couple of buildings I'd like to erase

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Use the 150mm (general ammo) on a point target with a light-quick mission. That pretty much erases any building with minimal rounds :)

This is a hard mission indeed. I played it only once untill now but got owned by the AI... Ouch, first time the AI really let me pick up the soap playing as USA..

I sort of ignored the spotting rounds being fired at my FO's and snipers and some moments later they were taken out by a massive air burst strike. Then the trucks arrived and they almost immediately came under AT-14 Kornet fire and 1 had a direct hit from a spotting round. Around that time I decided to push up with my abrams, they werent lucky either and then I Hurrayed my marines in a final suicidal push into a certain death...

Hopefully I will find time to start it again, because I really like the scenario. The only thing i dislike is that the Trucks directly come under fire of ATGM's when arriving at the map. They also dont have smoke dischargers which makes it a bit cumbersome to protect them in the beginning... Well, War is Hell :D

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How do you upload screenshots? I can do a print screen & give it a whirl.

Sigh... I should stick with naval games, there was a reason I was in the Navy not the Army or Marines!

grab a screenshot, go to www.photobucket.com and register and upload your picture there, then copy and paste the %7Boption%7D link that you get in one of the windows below the picture on that site.

I think its pretty hard to do a "how to win this scenario" quide as its to much dynamic events in this scenario, so its betther we work with what we have now. All I can do is tell you how I did this scenario...

1. Recon phase

got 2 platoons and 1 LAV-25. the platoon with 2 5man teams was placed with its HQ on the left side of map, the platoon with 3 2 team squads and the lav was placed on the right.

Reason: the 5 man team platoon cant cover as much area as the 3 2teams squads (split them up and you have 6 teams to recon with) the LAV was positioned on the right because left side is suicide. On the left side I put the HQ on the "mountain" top to act as FO and then sent the 2 5man teams forward to attract fire, wich they managed fairly well. resulting in that I was able to locate the 3 ATGMs that enemy had in positon, wich I nailed with 81mm mortar led from the HQ on the hill.

On the right side I split up the teams and advanced thrue the "woods" on the right side. when closing to the buildings they did bounding overwatch clearing house by house (didnt want to get my AAV ambushed by hidden RPG teams)

as my scouts found the BMP-3Ms and T-62s I started calling in 81mm armor mortar on the BMP-3M wich worked like a charm, the T-62 is to resistant against 81mm so thats no point, waited for the cobras to arrive before targeting the T-62.

Main body phase

When the main body arrived i spent a few turns rearming and reorganisate my troops into fightable units and then sent the FO and HQ team across the highway (with my heart in my throat considering the ATGM risk) to get a good view from the hill to lead in 155mm and Cobras.

the engineer platoon was sent first along the woods on the right to go up and help clear mines that ive found the usual way so I could take care of my wounded men there. behind them camed the 2 Marines platoon in AAV wich was driven all the way up to the "parking lot" on the right side wich had been cleared by my scouts. the M1 platoon that spawned later was sent to same place, using the parking lot as assembly point wich by then was clear of enemys that could look into that area (atleast what I knowed of)

I pounded the objective and the 2 buildings close to it with 155mm HE to desimate the enemy there and let 1st platoon attack against the 2 buildings and clearing them, holding 2nd platoon in reserve untill 1st platoon had taken the 2 building. Then I sent 1st platoon against the objective.

The tank platoon was decimated pretty fast by a T-62, Mines and terrain (bogged) leaving only 1 tank left, wich had to take care of the T-62 counterattack, wich it managed as i keyholed the enemy attackers between the buildings.

When the enginers had cleared the small building compartment on the right side of the map I sent recon across the "river" and cleared the objective in the right corner with 2 recon teams, wich later on was annhilitated by spawning enemy units (thanks..)

when F coy arrived in MTVR i sent them the same way as the AAV, up on the right side thrue the woods and there I switched the company into AAVs instead of MTVR as the other platoons by now was engaged in house clearing.

F coy never got around to see any action thoe

after the objective in the middle was taken I continued the assault against the junction and when I had taken all terrain on right side of the higway the enemy surrendered.

Done.

my biggest problem was mines and AAVs stupid pathfinding (yes there is some problem with the pathfindings, seen AAV do 360s on open terrain etc). its important to remember not to move without having cover of the terrain or cover by fire (or preferebly both) and suppress supress supress suspicios locations.

Look at the terrain, look on where you should end up, then look at the terrain again after advantageus terrain features, like small valleys, forest parts, houses obstructing FOV etc. Then look on the terrain again and try to figure where the enemy can position heavy weapons, RPG and snipers. then you have to evaluate if you can a) supress the enemy location B) denying them FOV by using terrain.

From all that you decide a good path and wich points to suppress if needed.

woods are good to advance thrue if you expect ATGM as ATGMs often explode when hitting trees so even if they can see you they cant kill you. but the best thing is to deny them FOV on your path.

When it comes to infantry fighting its about the same thing. suppres suppress suppress. make sure to have guns to bear on objective and areas that controls either the objective or your paths to the objective.

you have 2 SMAW teams per platoon, use them and the MGs as support squad hitting places where the enemy arent allowed to be, 2 squads suppreses the target (and later have cover arc over the objective) and 3rd squads assault the objective.

This way you deny the enemy flanking fire on your path, you pin the enemy in the objective and you leave allot of firepower to deal with anything popping up on the way.

hope this help. but give us a screen and we will se what we can do for you :)

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If you are playing real-time, there is a pretty foolproof way to "cheat," like I did for this particular scenario.

Basically just save the game rediculously often, and reload and replay each and every single little decision you make until you get the outcome you want. There is some luck involved with everything so even if you are using really bad tactics, with enough replays they will eventually work. Even an AT-14 with crack crew and 99% hit probability, for example, will miss that 1 out of every 100 shots, so when he misses, save it! :D

Another "cheat" is to save and then click "ceasefire" from the menu to display the positions of all enemies and then reload the save. I don't personally do this because I find it less fun to know where everyone is and it removes the prospect of enemy ambushes.

Good luck!

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I've never had the pleasure of finding any mines up the right side - through the woods. That entire area is mostly invisible to the enemy so it seems as can assemble there without attracting artillery fire. I can get my entire force about 1/3 of the way forward on the map, using buildings to cover the armor and later trucks. I put spotters on the hill over on the left side and from there kill a couple BMP's and the tank that is obvious (when the helo's arrive). I also call in Arty on the group of tanks that comes in - decimate them usually with a few leakers.

Once in position up on the right side I then unload everyone and work my way straight back, there is a building group back there full of bad guys that I don't like to be on my flanks as I head toward the center. Doing this is often where I run into trouble. The bad guys are like ticks - they have good defensive positions and if I bring up armor I "find" ATGM's. There is also a tank over there that often pops my infantry. Trying to whack it and not get whacked causes me to loose time.

Once I get this mess taken care of and can start moving toward the center objective locations I'm outta time. I can run back and get the back right corner objective, I can sometimes manage the center one. I'd need another hour (in my mind) to get the others as hurrying up = death as far as I can tell!

I think my problem is micromanaging too much. I need to get multiple units moving at once so the Marine squads can support each other better. I also don't know what to do with the machine guns (I think) as I can't seem to find a way to get them where they can shoot in support of the squads without getting whacked.

What my main issue seems to be the quandaries: Move too fast get whacked. Move too slow, run out of time. Use armor support, loose armor support. Don't use armor support, infantry gets it. Maybe I need to use "slow" more. Assault only works where the half squad left in over watch can actually SEE the target area of the assault. One lesson I've learned! Don't tell a group to assault half way across the map.

I'm learning - Not having much fun doing it so am not playing much - but when I feel like getting riled up again I give it a try.

I have actually played enough now so I know how to get part way - and when I've lost I have checked out where enemy forces are, but that only helps so much. I am embarrassed to admit that even knowing where most things are at I still run outta time. I am fine getting my forces up to a point where they can start assaulting, once that starts I'm toast! The tanks and BMP's are history, few problems with them. The ATGM's and enemy infantry are what's causing trouble - they seem to be pretty accurate.

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I actually managed to complete the mission on the first try after a few save-reloads, but only with ~30WIA, ~30KIA and several heavily damaged vehicles. With that kind of force taking on the next mission is even harder. I don't know how many missions I've to fight through after Pooth. But with that rate of casualties after 3 or 4 more missions my MEU would be reduced to platoon-size.

So I restarted the whole campaign, with the ultimate aim to bring all my forces through without too much casualties. On my second try of Pooth I managed to loose only about 10 soldiers and no vehicles but got fcuked by the time limit (which really sucks). I'm now on my third try. Preserving units by constant save-reload is possible, but ruins the whole game principle.

Pooth is one of the best Blue on Red CMSF missions I've played so far. But in the context of the campaign it's too hard. For me it's impossible to play this mission without save-reload while preserving my units and keeping the time limit.

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Well if u loose to much in Pooh u will not go very far in your next mission. i tried Pooh until i lost only 4 men from MG Teams and all Vehicles in good shape (Damage taken in one mission gets carried over to next mission so u get Abrahms without Ir etc is no good thing)

But to archive this i played the pooh scenario 20 times i think........

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Constant save/reloads are probably not how the scenario designer would like people to get through this mission. But I learnt the hard way, I won it on my first attempt but took a few too many casualties which made the next mission 'Milk Run' pretty tough, but the following 'Debouch to Disaster' actually impossible.

Luckily a defeat in 'Debouch to Disaster' wasn't enough to stop me having an overall victory in the campaign. I would have liked to have been able to play that map properly but, it looked really interesting.

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Gaming is all about fun, and everyone has a different idea as to what that is. For me, at some point I get frustrated and would have much more fun if there were some way to get through and move on. It's a game, it's entertainment, it's not supposed to be frustrating and infuriating!

Just speaking for myself, it devalues the game to a point - and I choose to do something else. There is a reason that some games (mostly the first person shooters) have cheat codes that can help out in a pinch. I don't like using them but in this case, if there were one I'd use it! What I want to do is edit the scenario to give me a bit more - just cheat a bit not totally wig out with a dozen F-18's or something.

This reminds me of some of the newer flight simulators - you have to learn to really fly to do anything. I liked the old Red Baron game, you didn't have to learn to fly (but had to somewhat learn) and could have fun. I don't have the patience to learn to really be a General or commander or whatever you call it for CMSF.

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There are mines in the Marines campaign?!? I'm pretty far down the highway and I haven't hit a single mine yet lol. Maybe somebody upstairs like my pixel troopers :D . But yeah, breaching vehicles would be nice if I ever do hit a mine.

My advice is to take your time and use craploads of ammo when your first learning. If its moving, shoot it. If it isn't moving, there's probably someone hiding there so shoot it. If it shoots back call for fire support. Recon by fire can be very useful if your unsure if you should move or if you want to reveal targets for your SMAWs/M1s/AAVs.

One thing that I did on that mission was spend lots and lots of time conducting recon/counter recon using the scout snipers. I moved one team all the way across the map on the right side, allowing me to pick off their armor with cobras and significantly reducing ambushes. Also I left my armor back, except for a handful of AAVs.I also dismounted and concealed the infantry from the MTRV company, meaning only a few empty trucks left in the open got hit by arty, drawing most of their fire onto a sacrificial offering of MTRVs, allowing for a steady infantry advance.

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Gaming is all about fun, and everyone has a different idea as to what that is. For me, at some point I get frustrated and would have much more fun if there were some way to get through and move on. It's a game, it's entertainment, it's not supposed to be frustrating and infuriating!

Just speaking for myself, it devalues the game to a point - and I choose to do something else. There is a reason that some games (mostly the first person shooters) have cheat codes that can help out in a pinch. I don't like using them but in this case, if there were one I'd use it! What I want to do is edit the scenario to give me a bit more - just cheat a bit not totally wig out with a dozen F-18's or something.

This reminds me of some of the newer flight simulators - you have to learn to really fly to do anything. I liked the old Red Baron game, you didn't have to learn to fly (but had to somewhat learn) and could have fun. I don't have the patience to learn to really be a General or commander or whatever you call it for CMSF.

Yes gaming is all about fun, but the statement is relative, most people play Combat Mission for a tactical challenge not for nice graphics or effects. Most scenario designers have this in mind and therefore there will always be some way of winning the mission. It can be extremely frustrating at times (have you played the Hasrabit campaign yet) yet the victory at the end is the reward. Like anything the harder you have to try to achieve the goal the sweeter the victory is. Keep going Atago the game would be boring if you could just win it without sometimes having to go back and re-thinking your tactics.

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I totally agree with Atago. I like to be challanged but if the only way to complete the campaign succesfully is to save-reload your way through each mission it ruins the gameplay.

The campaign designers should arrange the missions and your forces in a way that allows you to sustain casualties and still be able to complete the campaign!!!

In no scenario/campaign before I had to use the save-reload function as much as in the Marines campaign. I usually don't use it at all. For me this type of campaign ruins the gameplay. It is frustrating! Especially if you have, like me, a slow PC with which a reload takes a couple of minutes.

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Of course we got complaints about the Thunder campaign being too easy.

One thing that I notice gives people a lot of trouble is with the difference in fighting style. With the Army it was much more technology intensive. The brunt of the fight could be carried out by the armor, Bradleys, M1's, and to some extent MGSs backed up by the plentiful Javelins. For the Marines you have to shift your focus. Infantry is much more important to Marine tactics than to the Army. Marine squads hit hard and can take more punishment than their Army counterparts. They are the primary assault arm, everyone else is to support them. You really have to adjust your thinking with the Marines. You can't just run in and level everything with 120mm, 25mm, and Javelin fire, you have to send groups of guys in to dig the bad guys out. Luckily this is something the Marines are VERY good at.

The campaign is hard because the designers tried to make the missions as realistic as possible without making it a US firepower demonstration. There are many other really good scenarios that you can cut your teeth on to get used to the Marine fighting style. Think of the campaign as graduate school.

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well one thing that was extra hard for me, was that i was realy sometimes not been able to spot enemys in houses even when waching them for 15 minutes etc. that give u so hard times.........

Also the Enemy AFV and IFV seem to spot u so much easier then u spot them, even when both hide and standing still. Dont know if that is something that just changed with 1.10

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