Army Ranger Units?

[cabal23]

Thanks for the book title. I just finished reading Generation Killand need another title. Any other books out there you have found interesting? Believe it or not Oliver Stones "Assassins" was pretty damn good. I had no idea he had a talent for fiction. Another awesome book on the subject of SF units is Tom Clancy's Shadow Warriors.

[meade95]

I believe with CMSF there could be a very good role for DA-SOF type units (be it SEALs or Delta). Simply a small unit that coule be used to takedown specific targets (within a larger operation). That you could use such a unit to hit a specific target with a larger battle gong on around it -

And while of course there are no "rambo/super heros"........DA-SOF are more proficient than others, even other quality light infantry. Of course they have other skill sets outside of shooting that make them extremely valuble.....but DA-SOF units (those doing direct action type hits) they most certainly are more proficient (lethel) when putting guns on targets than other units throughout the Mil. They hit targets with an overwhelming force, speed and accuracy that other units aren't capable of.....(because of their constant training, training, training).....

So, I would love to see CMSF add in the avalibility of SEALs/DELTA (in small teams) with an added proficiency than is there now (something above elite).

[SoopSandwich]

It would be nice to have their air support assets also like the AH-6 "Little Bird", MH-60 "DAP", and the AC-130 "Spooky". Also vehicles like the RSOV and others...

[Imperial Grunt]

Thanks for the book title. I just finished reading Generation Killand need another title. Any other books out there you have found interesting? Believe it or not Oliver Stones "Assassins" was pretty damn good. I had no idea he had a talent for fiction. Another awesome book on the subject of SF units is Tom Clancy's Shadow Warriors.

"Generation Kill", just like the book, "Jarhead", is inaccurate, politically biased, and in my view, a pile of vile trash.

I recommend "No True Glory" by Bing West, "My Men are my Heros" by Nathaniel Helms, and "The Savage Wars of Peace" by Max Boot.

[Battlefront.com]

I saw some interviews with the Rangers who were the real story behind Black Hawk Down. When they spoke about Delta, it was one of healthy reverence and respect for their abilities. The Rangers in the interview were more than willing to admit that the Delta guys played a critical role in getting them out of the fix they were in.

The only funny irreverent story I head from someone in Iraq about Special Forces was one that most men in uniform can appreciate. Apparently some young officer, newly arrived, saw a bunch of Special Forces guys lying around in the sun disheveled by military standards. They had just come in form some mission and were resting up. The officer read them the riot act and one of the SF guys quite firmly told the officer what he could do to himself as soon as he found the time for it The junior officer was pissed and went to his CO who told him to kindly not bother the SF guys in the future!

Can't remember where I heard that, but it was at least a credible source. IIRC it wasn't first hand, so it could be a battlefield legend. However, I believe it no matter what

Steve

[cabal23]

"Generation Kill", just like the book, "Jarhead", is inaccurate, politically biased, and in my view, a pile of vile trash.

I recommend "No True Glory" by Bing West, "My Men are my Heros" by Nathaniel Helms, and "The Savage Wars of Peace" by Max Boot.

What was politically biased about Generation Kill? I didn't see that at all. Did the author inject his viewpoint, yes. But that is the difference between a book written by a soldier and on written by a Rolling Stone journalist. I think if that was his motive her succeeded and I can see it from his perspective. I am not so rooted in a philosophy that I can't see another persons perspective. But to each his own Also what was inaccurate about it? Keep in mind this was a reporters perspective. I am just curious because I am ex-mil and an avid reader of military books and I felt it was well written from the perspective of an embedded reporter. I will definitely check those books out you suggested. Didn't read Jarhead, saw movie and was unimpressed.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I can definitely recommend "No True Glory" as well. "Marines in the Garden of Eden" was another excellent book.

[Imperial Grunt]

What was politically biased about Generation Kill? I didn't see that at all. Did the author inject his viewpoint, yes. But that is the difference between a book written by a soldier and on written by a Rolling Stone journalist. I think if that was his motive her succeeded and I can see it from his perspective. I am not so rooted in a philosophy that I can't see another persons perspective. But to each his own Also what was inaccurate about it? Keep in mind this was a reporters perspective. I am just curious because I am ex-mil and an avid reader of military books and I felt it was well written from the perspective of an embedded reporter. I will definitely check those books out you suggested. Didn't read Jarhead, saw movie and was unimpressed.

I know a few officers who served in that battalion during the war, who had vastly different opinions. The ground truth might be in the middle, but its not where the author and his primary sources paint them. As far as politically biased, what I meant was that the book is "slanted" to portray the Marine Corps a certain way, the way a Rolling Stones reporter wanted to portray it as an organization.

Here is a "rebuttle" to the book by someone else who was there:

GENERATION KILL, NON-FICTION, YEAH RIGHT!

I was the Operation Chief for Bravo Company 1st Reconnaissance Battalion and

traveled with the Company Commander during Operation Iraqi Freedom I. I

arrived in Bravo Company about a week before the war kicked off because of

an incident with the Company's 1st Sergeant and a Master Sergeant. The

former Operations Chief was promoted to 1st Sergeant and I stepped in as the

Operations Chief. If Bravo Company or the Battalion didn't bring something

with them to the combat zone, I.E. LSAT, a lubricant for the heavy weapons,

or multiple rechargeable thermal batteries, then it was too late at the

point that I assumed responsibility as operations chief to get any. I know

we have heard the story of the goose that lays golden eggs but I have never

heard a fairytale about the gunny that lays LSAT or batteries for that

matter. So you can see how ignorant this sounds when it is the focus of my

faults. This book is stated to be non-fiction yet it is filled with lies and

much of the writing is from the point of view of a Marine that would have

normally been kicked out of the unit, but during time of war we need every

body that we can get. The Marine Corps has a name for Marines like Corporal

Person, " ****bird". In the book he is depicted as the, "True Recon Marine".

You have got to be kidding me, his true Recon Marine means that the Marine

has the 0321 military occupational specialty, it takes years of training and

a number of schools to be considered a TRUE RECON MARINE by, "True Recon

Marines" that have dedicated their careers to the reconnaissance community.

So not only are their multitudes of lies but the book is written from the

point of view of the Marines that befriended Evan Wright. Evan Wright

created characters for his book, a book that can only be categorized as

fiction.

PAGE 73: Introduction of this mythical character Evan Wright calls Casey

Kasim. The incident where he says that doc Bryan was almost shot by a senior

enlisted Marine as he comes through the bushes never happened. Here is what

did happen. Bravo Company is tasked with setting up a linear defense at the,

"Mother of all Battles Canal". The vehicles are supposed to be 500 meters

apart and all on line. Iraqi troops are walking along our side of the canal,

not the other side as written, and are said to have gave up the fight and

are going home to Nasariah. There were a lot of them moving through our

lines and there was not a good accountability of them exiting the far end. I

was checking the line and could see that about 1000 meters away there were

heat signatures of people in the brush approximately 40 meters behind our

lines. I could not tell who they were because I was using the ANPAS-13

Thermal Imager that is not a very good thermal optic. There was no vehicle

to their front and the ANPAS thermal imager does not have depth perception

so the personnel in the brush look like they are somewhere between two of

our vehicles. I had the vehicle in front of me conduct a communications

check with the vehicles to his left down the line. He tried to contact Sgt

Lovell's team that was supposed to be in the second position down the line,

the team didn't answer. 30 minutes after no communications with them I had

another vehicle go down to check out what was going on and who was in the

brush. As the vehicle was driving along the canal I used my PEQ-2, I.R.

pointer, to show them where the heat signatures were located. The vehicle

team moved down the canal and confirmed that it was Sgt Lovell's team; they

were digging in their position instead of having their vehicle on line with

the rest of the Company. Corporal Jacks passed them the word that they were

never told to dig in behind our lines and that they had to get their vehicle

up on line with everyone else. I never even went down the canal to where Sgt

Lovell's team was so this part about coming through the bushes and almost

shooting someone never happened. Sgt Lovell, the team leader for the team

that this incident was written about has confirmed what I have written.

PAGE 73: It says that I am one of those, "Rear-echelon" men in a support

position that normally wouldn't deploy with Recon Marines. Now this is the

funniest thing I have heard so far. That deployment to Iraq is my eighth

with a Reconnaissance unit, and the first in a Company Staff billet. I

probably have more reconnaissance deployments than any other Marine in the

Marine Corps at this point in my career. It states that my job is to keep

the men supplied with batteries, water and chow. Actually my job was

Operations Chief, assisting the Company Commander in his decision making

process. Which I will later discuss when it comes to more events that

happened and those that didn't.

PAGE 74: The book says that I failed to bring enough batteries for the

PAS-13 which is not as good of a device as depicted in the book. At a

distance of 600 meters you probably couldn't tell if the enemy had weapons

or not. As for bringing enough batteries, that was a shortfall at the

Battalion level. I handed out all the re-chargeable batteries that the

Battalion gave us evenly between the two platoons. That was all we were

getting there was no re-supply of thermal batteries during the first three

weeks of fighting.

PAGE 74: Here is a good one, how am I telling Doc Bryan this stuff about

enemy infiltrators when he is 1000 meters away from my position? If you

remember he was in Sgt Lovell's team that wasn't on line with the rest of

the Company 1000 meters away from me. I was standing in the Vehicle to my

front at the time and I was the one that said that it is probably just rocks

or the most disciplined Iraqi's we've seen so far, but to check it out

anyway. As a gunnery sergeant I can do this, I am in the position to give

orders, and I did. As a, "Joke", I said that it could be a well-disciplined

RPG hunter killer team. You see we do that sometimes to try and relieve

tension, their called jokes. Also as for Doc Bryan being better combat

trained than the Marines we can check his record book and verify that he was

not. He no doubt is better medically trained because he is a Navy CORPMAN.

It also states on this page that he could have chosen to be a Navy Seal or

join a Recon unit. I think there is a school called BUDS that you must pass

first before he would get to make that choice, but you would have to ask a

Navy Seal for verification on that. Maybe they just let you be a SEAL if you

complain a lot and make up stories for reporters.

PAGE 98: This combat stress class that the Marines received before the war,

which I the rear-echelon guy that normally doesn't deploy with Recon Marines

gave, actually states that 25 percent will have to urinate or defecate, not

that they will urinate or defecate on themselves. I guess it sounds funnier

the way Evan Wright explains it though so you can get this silly picture of

Marines running around trying to go to the bathroom before engagements. I

gave this class with a PowerPoint presentation and the class contents can be

verified.

Page 137: Colbert talking about stress related reactions in combat. The

first time Colbert heard anything about them was when I gave the class

before departing Kuwait and I talked extensively to Evan Wright about this

during the deployment. Once again it wouldn't sound good for my character to

know anything about combat related stress since I normally wouldn't deploy

with Recon Marines, What a joke!

PAGE 152: The Company Commander does fire his M203 out of reaction to others

firing but it was done while sitting in the vehicle and the round didn't

even reach the first berm. He agrees that he shouldn't have fired without

positively identifying his target and apologized for his actions. The funny

thing here is that most of the Marines had the same reaction the first time

they were engaged and they were not made out to be stupid. These very wise

Marines that Evan Wright keeps quoting, firing their M-4's at the enemy who

are well out of range for that weapon system, shooting every tree, bush, or

window that was in view. The Marine Corps teaches suppressive firepower,

which I don't totally agree with, I passed on to the Marines of Bravo

Company that they should locate the source of the incoming fire then direct

our fire back upon them starting with our heavy guns to out range the enemy.

Funny concept which Sgt Colbert told me worked well for him while receiving

fire from a direct laid antiaircraft piece, his team located the piece and

adjusted their MK-19 on the enemy position for a kill. Pretty good idea for

a rear-echelon guy that normally doesn't deploy with Recon Marines.

PAGE 155: This incident of the Company Commander calling artillery on the

RPG team and Lance Corporal Christeson being sure that he wounded one of

them. Well I just happened to have the whole thing on video since I left the

camera recording on accident. I also happened to capture Lt. Fick stressing

out and not following orders that were given from the Battalion Operations

Officer. I recently confirmed with now Cpl. Christeson that he never shot at

these guys it was another incident that was mixed in, I guess it fit better

here than where it actually happened.

PAGE 156: Fick does run up to our vehicle stressing out because he is

afraid, and he does ask what were doing there but in a little different tone

than stated in the book. He is worried about getting shot at from across the

street and doesn't think that we should be there holding that position. Fick

states that this is not a mission for a reconnaissance unit and that we

shouldn't be here doing this. Gunny Wynn was right there at his side

complaining as well. I was fuming, I got out of the vehicle and into his

face and told him, " This is our ****ing mission were going to hold this

position so the rest of the convoy can move through just as other units hold

similar positions for us". I started taking charge of moving their vehicles

into positions to cover the main avenues of approach from the town across

the street. Sgt Colbert was walking up to me at this time and I told him to

calm down and get his vehicle in position, in a calm voice he stated that he

was calm and moved his vehicle into position. A few minutes after this is

when the Battalion Commander calls us and tells us to move our vehicles 500

meters south to cover from just before where the town starts. Lt Fick is

complaining to the Company Commander ranting and raving about why he has to

move his vehicles and that he can shoot more than 500 meters. The visibility

was terrible, you could barely see 500 meters if not only 300. While this is

going on I spot a two man enemy element with an RPG running out of a house

to our East. Lt. Fick comes back to our vehicle stressing about having to

move his vehicles at the same time as were trying to get artillery in on the

guys to our East. As for the Company Commander telling Doc Bryan to measure

the distance to the target that is a total lie. I have the blue force

tracker in front of me and can tell exactly how far and give a 10-digit grid

to the house that the RPG team came out of. Once it was too late to hit the

RPG team the Battalion still wanted the fire-mission to go so that we would

have a target reference point in case it was needed again. If Lt. Fick would

have moved his vehicles as directed we would have had a better chance at

catching the RPG team as they moved to our south and towards where the

Battalion wanted us to have our vehicles.

PAGE 157: The Company commander saying to Doc Bryan, "What's danger close"

this never happened. As for Fick grabbing the handset out of the Company

Commanders hand that never happened either if it had the Company Commander

would have crushed him. Now as for Gunny Wynn saying sir this is ****ed up

lets get the platoon in a defensive perimeter. Gunny Wynn is freaking the

**** out, shouting that this is ****ed up what are we doing here. What he

was showing is called fear; he is displaying fear in front of his men for

the second time in combat. Gunny Wynn and Lt. Fick were doing this just

before I told them that this was our mission and were going to hold the

position for the rest of the convoy to pass through. Hmmm leadership? As for

the artillery strike, the Company Commander was trying to keep them from

firing the mission without getting himself in trouble so he took his time

giving the Battalion information hoping they wouldn't fire the mission. We

still received the one round and it didn't come close to anyone. It landed

just behind the house. The two guys with the RPG got away and no one shot

them as said in the book. I have this whole incident on video although you

can't see everything you can hear it all. This is going to be great when the

truth comes out. One thing about video, the one eye doesn't lie!

PAGE 183: Gunny Wynn and Lt. Fick were never in trouble for trying to stop

an artillery mission. They were being written up for being cowards, showing

fear in front of their men and creating dissention amongst the troops. Fear

breeds fear and that is how they ruined good Recon Marines, by instilling

fear in them. They should have both been relieved, gunny Wynn who encourages

his men to question orders will never be in charge of men in combat again.

He did deploy to OIF II and worked in head quarters. Upon completion of the

OIF II deployment he asked to be given a platoon again. He received orders

to another unit. Like I said he will never lead men in combat again. God

help them if he does.

PAGE 198: We were missed by the BM-21 because the Company Commander decided

to hold short of the intersection for two reasons. The first was that Sgt

Colbert said that it was too muddy and the other was the rear-echelon

Operations Chief that normally doesn't deploy with Recon Marines said that

the enemy normally targets intersections the same way we do. This rational

tactical decision really wouldn't look good in Mr. Wrights book.

PAGE 217: This myth that Lt. Fick says that there ****ing flanking us and

Fick requests an artillery strike, I am not sure but I think I have a Navy

Commendation Medal with a "V" for valor that says that I did this. Oh I am

looking at it right now, yes it does say that I did this.

PAGE 339: The Company Commander never ordered anyone into a minefield, they

were told to mark the minefield from the road so that the convoys that

followed behind us would know were it's at. I have this whole story with

interviews already completed about this incident.

PAGE 351: Since when is a meritorious promotion one of the highest honors in

the Marine Corps. Learn a little about the Marines before opening mouth and

inserting pen Evan.

PAGE 353: Gunny Wynn was never cleared of any charges because the Battalion

Commander never charged him with anything, which is something to this day I

still don't understand. Any leader knows that you don't tell your men to

question orders. His dereliction of duty caused dissention amongst the

troops that affected the Battalions efficiency. The truth will be known. Oh

please check my background and verify this for yourself*.

Gysgt. Daniel J. Griego, USMC Ret.

[Imperial Grunt]

Oh, and another great book I just read and I recommend is "Lone Survivor: The Eyewitness Account of Operation Redwing and the Lost Heroes of Seal Team 10" by Marcus Luttrell and Patrick Robinson.

[cabal23]

Wow You did your homework! Thanks for the great answers to my questions.

[JohnO]

Imperial Grunt is a current Marine while I'm a former Marine and so is Huntarr, so don't get us started on Generation Kill or Jarhead book/movie

JohnO

[cabal23]

I think that is true of any profession. Anyone who writes about what someone does will never be as accurate as the actual person who does the job. And lets not forget war is a very political subject. The viewpoint is always from one side or another unless they are writing a manual for operation which should be neutral. Once again, your response was an incredible read and much appreciated. Facts are often distorted in media. The real task is sorting through the layers to get to the truth.