John Kettler Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Found this while researching Japanese stuff for Kingfish. Not only does it have our take on the vehicle, but also the paraphrased German tactical instructions on how this thing should be used. Please note that in the CM games, the flexible flame projector which can be used while dismounted and with the AFV in defilade is NOT modeled. Thus, the CM version has two pintle mounted, shielded flame projectors, left and right, plus the shielded MG in the usual position. http://www.lonesentry.com/flamethrower/index.html Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_M 2.0 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I just realized today at CMAK doesn't have a Flammpz III, even though the 26.Pz had 16 and the 16. Pz had 7 in their To&Es as of Sept.43 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Again an interesting read, John. I really wonder whether there have been many succesful actions with 251/16s. Especially considering the vulnerability of the 251s, even against fire from small arms. I know of at least a few succesful actions, for example by the Hohenstaufen division, on the 29th of June 1944 near Grainville against the 8th Royal Scots in an orchard position (as described in Daglish ' Operation Epsom, over the battlefield'). It is mentioned in that book that ' Two armoured flame-throwing vehicles mader their way into the company areas, ' where they miled round and killed a lot of men in a particularly unpleasant manner before they withdrew'. If I understand correctly the RS was in the proces of being relieved by another unit, and probably in some sort of disorder. In those conditions one can imagine 251/16s being effective. Does anyone know of other actions with 251/16s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Alte Fritz Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 That Panzer Grenadier training film on YouTube has one of these and it is shown as mopping up survivors hidden in fox holes after the main mounted attack had swept over them and broken the back of the resistance. Cheaper than going after each man in each foxhole, I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Panzer_M 2.0, Not only were they in service in this theater, but the U.S. had a particularly unpleasant encounter with some at what I want to say was Troina, where they rolled into town, spraying flame all over the place. Here's a description of the beast, together with an unfortunately no location given combat encounter. http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/pz3ft/index.html There's another interesting angle here, in that the German flame agent contains creosote, which is nasty and smelly all by itself, let alone when burning. Bear in mind that wooden railroad ties, often used for garden projects, are never to be burned, being soaked in the stuff to prevent rot. I think one good whiff of burning creosote would be enough to start the crew choking and coughing. http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/tme30/ch8sec6sub4.html Aragorn2002, That's right in Kingfish's recent op design territory. You might ping him to see whether he's aware of this. I certainly wasn't. Compare the grisly British description with the paraphrased German translation at the original link regarding the fate of men who pop up close to the 251/16. Der Alte Fritz, A most attention getting video series! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Again an interesting read, John. I really wonder whether there have been many succesful actions with 251/16s. Especially considering the vulnerability of the 251s, even against fire from small arms. an Osprey booklet i have about flammpanzers gives the idea that the halftrack was more liked than the panzers. perhaps the grenadiers were just more familiar with close range actions or perhaps the extra mobility was a crucial component. IIRC commanders used the flame halftracks most of all for a shock effect at night and liked to have a siren installed on the halftrack for extra effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 HTs are PzGren "owned", tanks are "borrowed" (or do lead). 251 is proof vs small arms, even vs SMK. Vs dedicated AT, both die. HT has two small projectors reacting quickly, creating a good "active" defence in all directions. Tank has one on a relative slow turret. But most important: The PzGren are on the outside of the tank... but inside the 251. So which one would you prefer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Panzer_M 2.0, Aragorn2002, That's right in Kingfish's recent op design territory. You might ping him to see whether he's aware of this. I certainly wasn't. Compare the grisly British description with the paraphrased German translation at the original link regarding the fate of men who pop up close to the 251/16. That occured during the II SS Pz Corp's counterattack on the 29th. The scenario I am (still) working on covers the 10th HLI's attack two days earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aco4bn187inf Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 If I remember correctly, the book 'Tank Rider' by Bessonov describes an encounter in a town with a couple of 251/16's, which get knocked out before they can use their flame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Kingfish, Oops! Thought you'd completed your work and "moved" to the Pacific Theater of Operations. Else, why'd you suddenly start asking about Japanese tankettes? Aco4bn187inf, I simply must get that book! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Kingfish, Else, why'd you suddenly start asking about Japanese tankettes? Because when it comes to scenario design I have the attention span of my 3-yr old. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Kingfish, Not sure whether I should encourage or discourage this tendency! In any event, please severely limit your MTV viewing lest your attention span slip to the point where you stop finishing scenarios and ops. Thanks for all you do for us! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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