help with tigers?

[wupwupzoidberg]

the german tiger is imense. mto test it i made a ambush scenario where it started in the middle of a wood with no way out suroiunded by 10 piats and 10 bazokas and it still won. at 5m range. how can i kill it? also all the tank destroyers exept the archer cant destroy it quickly enough and the archer has to reverse anywhere so its hard to use. the firefly cant even hurt it. what is he best way to destroy it without artilery/ feild guns? thanks

[stoat]

Tigers are certainly hard to kill, and even more so at long ranges where the 88mm gun and thick armor allow it to stand off and blast your units with seeming impunity. But Tigers are far from invincible. Your best weapon with which to destroy the big kitty is the 17 pounder AT gun. This could be the towed gun itself, or mounted an an Archer, Achilles, or Sherman IIC or VC Firefly. All four of these vehicles carry the exact same weapon, so claiming that an Archer is effective while a Sherman is not isn't true at all. Most players would prefer Shermans any day because they are turreted, which protects the crew and allows for targetting without spinning the shole vehicle. 17pdr guns will penetrate frontally at modest ranges.

The 76.2mm L/52 is your next best weapon. Again, it can be towed, or mounted in any of a plethora of vehicles. Any 76mm Sherman will do, so there are a bundle of options which let you balance armor and suspension against cost (A1, A3, or HVSS of either) and the Brits get the IIA. Tank destroyers also fit into this category. The M18 and the M10/Wolverine both carry 76.2, which will get side turret penetrations and side penetrations from moderate range. Frontal penetrations are rare.

Lastly for vehicles, the whitebread 75mm/38 will work at close ranges from the sides and rear. Buttloads of options here, but the point is get close and work the sides and rear.

Bazookas and PIATs are options, once again from very close against the sides or rear, but these aren't sure fire Tiger killers. Often your best option is the rifle grenade carried by US rifle platoons. It is ridiculously over modeled and wouldn't have worked in real life, but it works in the game. Close assault against the flanks and rear will occasionally work.

Engineer units with demo charges will produce a reliable kill if you get them close , even from the front, given the nature of the attack.

You have many options. 17pdrs are fairly rare and expensive, so the key is generally to work the sides and rear of the Tiger, or force it into areas thick with bazookas and infantry with impassable terrain or AT mines. 5m is also too close. A bazooka shell at 5m will do just as much damage to its crew as it will to the tank's. Upper floors of buildings, or positions behind buildings provide good cover from infantry and to a lesser extent tank fire and will give you angles of attack with moderately high rates of success.

The Tiger is big and tough, but it is very expensive and easier to kill than a Jagdpanther or Elefant.

[dieseltaylor]

stoat - You forget the 6lber [57mm]. British gun can kill Tigers especially if it has tungsten when it can do a TigerI head on. With a battalion purchase you get 6 of the little devils with transport.

There are also about 5 British tanks with the 6Lber and an armoured car. With tungsten all of these can kill a Tiger head on at 500 mtres, side on at 1000metres. A 17pdr can kill TigerI' s with normal AP and Tungsten out to 2000metres at zero degrees inclination, probably 1000metres at 30 degrees slope.

I have lost two Tigers to bazooka side shots, at range, in a single game. I have also had a Tiger shrug off 5 frontal hits from a bazooka.

[Bad Company]

I just pound the crap out of the Tiger with anything I can find.You want to supress the Tiger so it can't fire back,then you go for rear and pound the rear with any weapon you can find,you may get lucky.

[stoat]

stoat - You forget the 6lber [57mm]. British gun can kill Tigers especially if it has tungsten when it can do a TigerI head on. With a battalion purchase you get 6 of the little devils with transport.

I did forget about 6pdrs with tungsten. But only three tanks carry it. The Crusader III, Valentine VIII, IX, and X, and Churchill IV and IX (also light turret version). The AEC II also carries the 6'er. But if you don't get any tungsten shells, you are up a creek. However, the Churchill IX's have a fairly good chance of shrugging off hits, even from the Tiger's 88mm.

[dieseltaylor]

I did forget about 6pdrs with tungsten. But only three tanks carry it. The Crusader III, Valentine VIII, IX, and X, and Churchill IV and IX (also light turret version). The AEC II also carries the 6'er. But if you don't get any tungsten shells, you are up a creek. However, the Churchill IX's have a fairly good chance of shrugging off hits, even from the Tiger's 88mm.

OK six UK tank variants : ) Tungsten loadouts late war are quite generous and if you buy platoons you would be very unlucky indeed not to get any - possibly it is impossible to get a platoon without some.

Also bear in mind flank shots at 500metres without tungsten

[wupwupzoidberg]

thanks allot guys. ill try the firefly again b ut im pretty sure i havent been able to get a kill rating with it. i.e. the thing under the hit percentage says 'none'. wich armoured car is that? because that sounds good.

[dieseltaylor]

I forgot to mention the US 76mm armed Shermans which BF show as having the gun performance of a Firefly [shermanIIA]. Curiously in September 1944 the US tanks can have tungsten whereas the Fireflies do not. Not needed but strange.

The AEC II is the armoured car and turns up in the armour column rather than vehicles. I cannot think of any German or US armoured cars that get the privilege of being considered armoured.

If you think that is a one off then consider the British Autocar which is basically a assault halftrack and that also becomes Armour when selecting. - I mean why???

[stoat]

thanks allot guys. ill try the firefly again b ut im pretty sure i havent been able to get a kill rating with it. i.e. the thing under the hit percentage says 'none'. wich armoured car is that? because that sounds good.

It's likely a case of you not having any tungsten shells and firing at the Tiger frontally from range. Tungsten shells (T as opposed to HE or AP) are less common in the loadout, but will definitely punch through the Tiger. Unless you really like mechanized cavalry, most players tend to stay away from armored cars as they blow up very easily, and their reconnaisance attributes aren't rewarded in the game. The six pounder is nice and all, but the overall package isn't going to stand up in an armor vs armor engagement. A better all-around armored car is the Staghound III, with the same 75mm that a Sherman carries mounted in a Crusader turret atop a Stag chassis. Not the best against cats, but can hold its own against other German armor, and the 75mm HE makes it useful against infantry. 6 lber HE is pathetic.

[stoat]

I forgot to mention the US 76mm armed Shermans which BF show as having the gun performance of a Firefly [shermanIIA]. Curiously in September 1944 the US tanks can have tungsten whereas the Fireflies do not. Not needed but strange.

The Sherman IIA is an equivalent of the M4A3(76). The barrel of the IIA is shorter than that of the IIC, which is better known as the Firefly. If it doesn't have a 17pdr, it's not really a Firefly.

[Aco4bn187inf]

Sometimes you have to 'manage' a Tiger rather than kill it.

Penetrations by 6pdr, for example, even non-damaging ones, can intimidate the player and cause him to withdraw. If he bought Tigers, he had to skimp in other areas. Apply pressure everywhere the Tiger's aren't. Create a situation where he's worried about losing the Tiger to an inexpensive unit. Fire arty smoke on him to make the Tiger irrelevant at critical moments. I have won a couple of games where the enemy Tiger survived but all other German units were smashed. That's good enough for me.

[dieseltaylor]

Quite right stoat. I once knew that!! : )

A - 76mm

B - 105mm

C - 17pdr

And for those who think accuracy was dumbed down at range by BF

Two noteworthy examples of the increased firepower of the Firefly during the Battle of Normandy. On 14 June, during Operation Perch, Sgt. Harris of the 4th/7th Dragoon Guards, along with three standard Shermans, set up defensive positions along with the infantry after successfully driving out the Germans in the village of Lingèvres, near Tilly-sur-Seulles. Looking through his binoculars, Sgt. Harris spotted two Panthers advancing from the east. He opened fire at a range of 800 meters, knocking out the lead Panther with his first shot, and the second Panther with his second. Relocating to a new position on the other side of the town, he spotted another three Panthers approaching from the west. From his well-concealed flanking position, he and his gunner Trooper Mackillop eliminated all three with just three rounds. Harris and his gunner had knocked out five Panthers with as many rounds, demonstrating the potency of the Firefly, especially when firing from a defensive position on advancing enemy tanks.[2]

I doubt that it could ever occur in BF in terms of shells to hits let alone destruction.

[wupwupzoidberg]

now im realy angry. i got a firefly with 3 tungsten shells behind enemy lines and had it come up behind the last known position of one. turns out it knew i was their and was halfway through turning to target me. i managed to get 2 shots at its side/front from about 150M but it was fine and took me down with 1 shot. now im sad

[stoat]

now im realy angry. i got a firefly with 3 tungsten shells behind enemy lines and had it come up behind the last known position of one. turns out it knew i was their and was halfway through turning to target me. i managed to get 2 shots at its side/front from about 150M but it was fine and took me down with 1 shot. now im sad

That's just bad luck, mate.

[dieseltaylor]

It happens. On a similar not I shot a Panther for a full minute with the 6pdr from the back and managed two rear turret penetration, rear deck penetration a partial penetration and three other hits and then the game ended!! The Panther crew were shocked - so was I. It had managed to blow up a Wolverine from close range whilst I was making holes in it.

I have had a Sherman survive 7 hits in a minute for a crew loss so it is not only Axis tanks that can get lucky! BTW after penetration damage is factored in and some shells are far more lethal than others if they penetrate.

But thats real life - the Firefly gunner who killed five real Panthers with only 5 shots was bucking the odds to.