Air raids on Berlin... in WW I?

[jurpo]

I'm currently reading Michael Pearson's "The Sealed Train", which is about Lenin's journey from Switzerland to Russia in 1917 and the events that followed when he arrived there.

Ran into a surprising statement:

As the train travelled through the Berlin suburbs, the exiles were appalled by the signs of war in the city, which had been the target of Allied air raids.

Huh? The only thing I can think of is Russians using Sikorsky's Ilya Muromets bombers, but a quick googling didn't result in any confirmation. Or did the Brits perhaps manage to reach Berlin with airships? Anyone with any information?

[mike_the_wino]

This:

The airplane became an important weapon. Though the results attained by airpower during the war were hardly decisive, its potential was clearly demonstrated. By war's end strategic bombing had passed its infancy. German dirigibles and aircraft had bombed London, and British aircraft had frequently bombed Rhineland towns. Had the war lasted another week, British bombers would have attempted to bomb Berlin with one-ton bombs.

Would suggest the answer to be no.

website:

http://www.ww1-world-war-one.info/world-war-1-information-History-Germany-Defeat-Warfare-Development.htm

How the hell does one linky properly now that they hath removed that little bit which shrinks the links?

[Affentitten]

The Brits had plans to do it with the Handley Page V/1500. It could have theoretically reached Berlin from Norfolk with a token bomb load. But like the Germans with their UFOs and nuclear warheads in WW2, the Brits started their project much too late in the war and by the time they were gaining the capability to hit Berlin, everyone was already gathered round the table at Versailles.

[Lars]

And the Vickers Vimy.

Same bomb load as a B-17. I wouldn't exactly call it "token".

But yeah, they were just a little late. Don't think they ever hit Berlin itself.

[Blackhorse]

From here:

http://www.firstworldwar.com/airwar/bombers_britain.htm

In October 1917 Hugh Trenchard, commander of the RFC in France, was ordered to commence a strategic bombing campaign against German industrial targets. To this end the 41st Wing was formed, taking squadrons from both the RFC and the RNAS. The 41st flew DH4s, O/100s and the venerable Fe2B pusher which was proving its worth as a night bomber and ground strafer. They later began re-equipping with the O/400, an improved version of the O/100 with a 910 kg (2000 lb) bomb load and a range of 965 km (600 miles).

For the first few months the 41st wing concentrated on attacking local targets, but they made their first long-distance raid when 10 Handley-Pages attacked the towns of Mannheim and Ludwigshafen.

By February of 1918 they were capable of mounting the first "round the clock" bombing raid, against the town of Trier, with the DH4s attacking by day and the Handley-Pages attacking by night. In March they carried out a number of day raids, including raids of Mannheim, Mainz and Stuttgart, but this was at the price of six of the Handley-Pages, as the Germans were increasing their anti-aircraft fire and bolstering their fighter defence.

When the RAF was formed on the 1st of April 1918, the decision was made to increase strategic bombing activities. Trenchard was placed in charge of this enlarged force, which became known as the "Independent Force, RAF".

Trenchard preferred to bomb a number of targets, rather than concentrate on one. He also preferred daylight bombing rather than night bombing, as he felt the day bombers were more accurate, but conditions in the field overruled him.

By July of 1918 his day bomber squadrons were suffering too high an attrition rate, and could not operate without fighter escort. The bulk of the bombing effort was eventually carried out by the Handley-Page night bombers, which by September of 1918 were carrying Britain's largest bomb, weighing 750 kg (1,650 lb).

These aircraft dropped two thirds of the 558,000 kg (1,230,000 lb) of bombs dropped by the Independent Force in the latter half of 1918.

At the signing of the armistice the RAF had just taken delivery of its most advanced bomber. The Handley Page V/1500 was a four engined plane that could carry a bomb load of 3,400 kg (7,500 lb) from East Anglia to Berlin, but the plane was never used.

[Affentitten]

And the Vickers Vimy.

Same bomb load as a B-17. I wouldn't exactly call it "token".

Fair enough. I guess I was more thinking that given the total possible number of aircraft involved (eg. just 3 Super Handleys), it was hardly going to bring Berlin to its knees.

[hoolaman]

How the hell does one linky properly now that they hath removed that little bit which shrinks the links?

LIKE THIS

PLUS UNNECESSARY CHARACTERS.

[Lars]

Fair enough. I guess I was more thinking that given the total possible number of aircraft involved (eg. just 3 Super Handleys), it was hardly going to bring Berlin to its knees.

Oh, eventually they would have twigged onto firebombing instead of HE.

Or mustard gas. What the hell, eh?

[jurpo]

Well, it seems that the author is wrong then, and quite badly too. I wonder how many other such gems the book contains

I hadn't known before that RAF had such capability (H-P V/1500) in late 1918. Interesting!

[John Kettler]

jurpo,

Good writers often unconsciously detect events and write about them before they happen. See, for example, Orwell's police helicopters and a slew of modern devices, to include the fax, in the writings of Jules Verne. Concerning the latter, his publisher suppressed one book lest it destroy both his top writer's rep and that of his own publishing firm.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Affentitten]

Well, it seems that the author is wrong then, and quite badly too. I wonder how many other such gems the book contains

I hadn't known before that RAF had such capability (H-P V/1500) in late 1918. Interesting!

It's all part of historiography. Every single one of us forms different impressions and assumptions when we don't have eaxct data. You never know, Lenin may have been told by a German that Bombs had fallen on Berlin and he was just repeating that. You just need to read a balance of sources and try to assess the correct picture.

[Lars]

jurpo,

Good writers often unconsciously detect events and write about them before they happen. See, for example, Orwell's police helicopters and a slew of modern devices, to include the fax, in the writings of Jules Verne. Concerning the latter, his publisher suppressed one book lest it destroy both his top writer's rep and that of his own publishing firm.

Regards,

John Kettler

A novel theory, but Michael Pearson's "The Sealed Train" was written in 1975.

[dieseltaylor]

Crumbs Jules Verne was brilliant!

but

Scottish inventor Alexander Bain is often credited with the first fax patent in 1843. He used his knowledge of electric clock pendulums to produce a back-and-forth line-by-line scanning mechanism.

Frederick Bakewell made several improvements on Bain's design and demonstrated the device at the 1851 Great Exhibition in London.

In 1861, the first fax machine, the Pantelegraph, was sold by Giovanni Caselli, even before the invention of workable telephones.

so Jules was a young man when they were invented. Tsk!