Spotting, identifying and shooting thru buildings?

[Gimble]

Forgive if this a noob question, i have not yet printed manual because i don't know if the full version (european) includes a printed one and it has not yet arrived

Anyway, i was playing demo again yesterday and this time with Syrians, i placed couple of my BMPs behind structures so that they wouldn't be spotted immediately....

Well...they were spotted immediately and also shot immediately thru the structure?

I bet they were also identified too? How is this possible? The structures remained ok, which is another question? I didn't notice structures taking a hit at all. I haven't seen this kind of stuff happening in previous CM games :/ What is going on?

[Thomm]

This portion of the game may still be 'under construction'. There are still LOS and pathfinding bugs.

It is not entirely clear, what can be fixed and what is a side-effect of the design of the game (action-spot concept).

It is safe to assume, however, that the number of oddities will decrease with every patch.

Best regards,

Thomm

[sandy]

It's one of the many improvements over CM1 in CMSF

Don't you get it?

There are many others of similar value, and (apparently) we (CM1 fans on this forum) asked for all of them...

[ September 12, 2007, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: sandy ]

[Gimble]

Thanks for reply. I don't know about the action-spot concept, but i do know that the old concept worked perfectly and not very often had stuff like this happening.

I hope this is not some "sacriface" because of RTS mode?

But the short version must be that the game is buggy as hell. I hope you get it fixed soon?

As a testing engineer i'm kind of suprised that this is at stored shelves with price tag then :confused:

[sandy]

We all were surprised by CMSF when we first tried it...

[Mishga]

Some of us even liked it and got the best out of it

[birdstrike]

Could be alot of things going on here. Could be related to the LOS bug, could also be that the BMP was spotted by another unit which transmitted its position to another unit, or there could have been a unit inside the building you haven't seen which took a shot at you. The BMP has very limited FOV so it's easy there was someone nearby you didn't notice.

The shot going through the building doesn't seem like a bug. AP rounds can easily penetrate buildings or other vehicles, and still kill you.

[Gimble]

Originally posted by birdstrike:

Could be alot of things going on here. Could be related to the LOS bug, could also be that the BMP was spotted by another unit which transmitted its position to another unit, or there could have been a unit inside the building you haven't seen which took a shot at you. The BMP has very limited FOV so it's easy there was someone nearby you didn't notice.

The shot going through the building doesn't seem like a bug. AP rounds can easily penetrate buildings or other vehicles, and still kill you.

Only explanation is that it was a huge bug or one of my men were an American Spy and he transmitted the cordinates somehow

I mean, BMP:s were wasted immediately from american starting point, first one during first 5 seconds of turn 1 (turn based) And the otherone right after that.

Is this kind of stuff likely to happen often also in full version? (1.03) The demo i'm playing is 1.02.

And about that house beig shot...shooting thru building can happen, but i would expect some indication on that building that is was just shot. Even AP shell would probably mess up things, especially when we are talking about houses made of "mud" or whatever (****)

I once got a card from my friend who was as an UN peace keeper in Kosovo. The card had pic of houses on it and he wrote that they were made of ****...i don't know if it was true or not? Maybe it was? Sorry offtopic...

[ September 12, 2007, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Gimble ]

[birdstrike]

I'm playing 1.03 and didn't have any problems using buildings as cover for vehicles yet. Maybe it is a 1.02 related issue. Don't know.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I think they fixed a lot of stuff, particularly LOS, in v1.03. I haven't played any other version (only got the game a few days ago), and have had no problems with anything like this.

The thing with a visible indication of a building being hit is: the wall is either destroyed or it's not. So unless the AP round destroyed the wall, you wouldn't see any indication of it. I think either it's a 1.02 issue, or the AP round went through the building, which I consider quite feasible.

[Mord]

He's right about the demo. Any BMP placed behind any building before the first turn starts, gets spotted and wasted in about 10 seconds. It's most likely a 1.02 thing. I haven't seen this yet playing 1.03...

However, he's wrong about CMX1 simulating this perfectly because it had the same issue for a different reason...I can't count how many times I thought I had safety behind a building and was taken out...

Mord.

[Gimble]

Originally posted by Mord:

He's right about the demo. Any BMP placed behind any building before the first turn starts, gets spotted and wasted in about 10 seconds. It's most likely a 1.02 thing. I haven't seen this yet playing 1.03...

However, he's wrong about CMX1 simulating this perfectly because it had the same issue for a different reason...I can't count how many times I thought I had safety behind a building and was taken out...

Mord.

Yep, about CM1 i ment "very often" but forgot to write the often word...sometimes one word can make huge difference. I know stuff hapeen there as well...

But the point here was the very negative "out of the box -feeling" when my FIRST EVER placed vehicle gets spotted and wasted really unrealistic way thru building.

But if it's just a 1.02 issue, then maybe this is enought about that topic. I just hope that my full copy arrives soon

[Mord]

I ran a test...and well, it's not as prevalent, (I didn't spot anything from far away like in the Demo), it still exists to a small degree, Check this out.

LOS/LOF Through Buildings

They may have done more with this in 1.04. We'll see.

A couple of notes;

The M3A3 Brad, was given a hunt command up to the spot that it is in...it sat for about 15 seconds of that turn plus another full turn and did nothing after having spotted that BRDM. I had to self target the vehicle before any firing started.

The Fist was also given a hunt command and notice it isn't the one that takes out the BMP even as it's facing it...it never even fires. Plus it does nothing while whatever is behind it unloads.

One cool thing though...watch the Syrian laying on the ground, near the destroyed BRDM (one farthest from the building). He actually gets taken out from a ricochet off the Fist. That's the kinda stuff I love about CM games! I would've hated to have been those guys in that situation!

Mord.