Hull down command?????

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by Achim:

I think, its clear what Kieme(ITA) wants.

It's not clear to me if he means:

1. Hulldown to a spotted enemy

2. Hulldown to a selected spot irrespective of spotted enemies

3. Hulldown to a general direction

4. All of the above with one command?

He has asked for all 3 in different posts. If it's clear to you then which is it? If you're asking for a command it must be a good idea to define what you want the command to do. I'm just interested to know exactly what he wants it to do.

[ August 02, 2007, 03:45 AM: Message edited by: Melnibone ]

[dfritch]

1 and 2 are exactly what we want. It's not unclear. 1 and 2 are the same in practice, because you'd be clicking on a location, whether there was an enemy believed there or not.

[Pak40]

Hunt will only function as a 'hull down' command if the unit currently does not see any enemy, otherwise the unit will just sit there.

And I don't agree that the hull down command was broke in CMx1. I used it several times with success. However, I must admit I didn't use it much.

However, I can see the possible flaws in the design of the command:

1) the player specified the piece of ground relative to the unit trying to achieve 'hull down' status. The difference in elevation of the ground and the cannon of a tank can be a couple of meters.

2) The battlefield is dynamic. A player may set the 'hull down' command in reference to a the ground near a specific enemy tank. But that tank may move while the players own tank is seeking the perfect hull down spot. Then the command wont work at all.

A partial solution in CMx2 could be a version of the HUNT command where the vehicle would ignore soft threats and only stop for armored vehicles or known AT units. This would really only work well when cresting a hill.

[ August 02, 2007, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Pak40 ]

[Pak40]

sorry double post

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by dfritch:

1 and 2 are exactly what we want. It's not unclear.

Why did he ask for 3 then? Unless you can read my mind it is unclear to me.

[Melnibone]

The other question is how much should you rely on the computer to do your job for you. I actually enjoy putting my units in good positions by myself - it's part of the skill of the game to me.

[athkatla]

Originally posted by Melnibone:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kieme(ITA):

For me instead its like talking with a brick wall...

You are the one being unclear what you want. Up to now in this thread you have asked for:

1. A flawed command from CMX1

2. A version of a Hulldown command that already exists - Hunt

3. Another version of a Hulldown command that operates without sighting the enemy.

It's hard to discuss the options with somebody who keeps changing what they actually want and then accuses people who are trying to help with not listening. </font>

[thewood]

Originally posted by Melnibone:

The other question is how much should you rely on the computer to do your job for you. I actually enjoy putting my units in good positions by myself - it's part of the skill of the game to me.

Go look at the LOS threads and see why an automatic HD command would be good. It is definitly not WYSIWYG. Without that, manual HD is next to impossible or a crap shoot at best.

[Melnibone]

Originally posted by thewood:

Go look at the LOS threads and see why an automatic HD command would be good. It is definitly not WYSIWYG. Without that, manual HD is next to impossible or a crap shoot at best.

LOS was not WYSIWYG in CMX1 either and HD command was not even in CMBO IIRC.

Experience of playing the game should tell you where to be hull down - as in CMX1. The big advantage CMX1 has of course is that the LOS tool confirms that you are actually hull down to a specific spot you pick. So you soon are able to judge without a specific command where to place your units.

Once you are able to get that sense of manual judgement I think the player can do better than a specific HD command - which cannot possibly be hope to assess all the details that the player can. A 3D battlefield with 360 degree possible threats must be hard for the game to calculate the optimum HD positions to take up. I suspect that's why I stopped using the HD command in CMBB - I could do better myself. Anyway that's just my opinion - early days in the new game yet - I'm only playing WEGo at the moment - maybe I'll change my mind when I move up to RT

[Kieme(ITA)]

Originally posted by athkatla:

He is just a troll, every post he makes is one of complaining! If you feel the game is that bad Kieme, don't play it, and while you're at it, stop with the constant whining on just about every thread you post in, it's getting boring! [/qb]

[Sirocco]

Hunt and Hull Down are two very different things.

With CMx1 I can't recall using the explicit HD command; I'd get down to ground level and find the right spot to go HD on specific points on the map. I don't have enough experience of the new engine to know how practical that is now, given the LOD issue.

With RT I'm not sure how practical that is, either, especially at elite level, unless you still have full control over the camera.

[athkatla]

Originally posted by Kieme(ITA):

I'm sure I've helped more with my "whining" than you did with personal attacks!

If you can't get the difference between decisive, straight yet constructive criticism and pure whining I suggest you at least to keep from writing down such kind of unuseful replies.

I've kept posting because I've tried to make myself clearer, but english is not my native language and maybe I cannot express myself perfectly.

What I've wrote down has simply the aim of giving more help for future game improvements, it's not just "whining" and it's much better than a: "it's all soo good and ok" thread. Finally other people have expressed similar thinking as I did. [/QB]

There was no personal attack on you by me, I just stated what is obvious. Ok, you have problems with the game, you stated them, but why do you have to jump on every thread and state them over and over again, I think the devs will have got the idea by now!

[Kieme(ITA)]

You're still missing my aim, to make clear what happens.

I don't go from thread to thread just to annoy people, I keep updating since I find more and more things to talk about. this thread is about a thing I didn't considered myself (hull down command) but I found it a useful discussion and wanted to make clear -or try to- my point of view, hoping to see something I'd like to in the future.

I repeat: if you can't recognize this kind of support then, please, stop replying in such way (you can think what you want about my posts, just consider you only waste valuable discussions with sort of spam, and by responding to you I'm doing the same, so that this will be my last unconstructive comment.

[Sitting Duck]

Hunt can in theory achieve the same result as Hull Down, but it's happenstance and requires spotting the enemy unit.

A Hull Down command should work with respect to two specific points on the map. Of course, there may not be a Hull Down position available between two points.

While it might be possible, I don't think it's practical to manually obtain a Hull Down position in the game.

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Sitting Duck:

Hunt can in theory achieve the same result as Hull Down, but it's happenstance and requires spotting the enemy unit.

That's the problem. When you're on the defence you're looking - at least in CMx1 - for good setup positions to create an ambush. With LOD as it is I don't know how practical that is, not having had time to try it with the Syrians to date.

[jep]

Originally posted by Melnibone:

Explain how you think the command should work.

I choose destination area and computers use red color to show me every possible hulldown positions for selected unit.

[Pak40]

Originally posted by jep:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Melnibone:

Explain how you think the command should work.

I choose destination area and computers use red color to show me every possible hulldown positions for selected unit. </font>

[Mud]

On the other hand, selecting a vehicle and highlighting an overlay ("places this unit can see right now") would be useful if doable. Or 'move until you think you could shoot at one particular selected point if you have to', doing periodic LOS checks and LOF checks (if LOS check says 'possibly') as need be.

You -could- move the camera to each individual unit and pan/tilt it, but this isn't very practical in real-time unless you have extremely few units or what you have is quite tightly grouped.