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Demo Mission Tactics


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Yeah, yeah, I know. But some of us out there can't get the game right this second, or are waiting for it to be patched.

Anyway, I've been playing the demo mission (the only real mission in the demo, not that stupid "training" one) a lot from both sides.

So far the best tactic for either side seems to be to rush your tanks up the large hill. Sometimes you'll get a tank knocked out, but most of the time you'll completely decimate the enemy in literally seconds. This is "gamey", isn't it?

I don't know anything about real-life tactics. Should I move my M1s and Stykers in together? Should the M1s be in front or behind? Should I go up on the hill(s) or stay in the valley? What's the best way to handle the incoming Syrian tanks? The way they materialize on the edge of the map is very annoying.

The Syrians seem to get destroyed very quickly if they are not well-hidden. So far I find it best to scoot my APCs behind the hills ASAP (or they turn into toasters very, very quickly) and let the US units move into their line of sight, exposing their flanks. Also, I have to hide my tanks similarly from the M1s, and then try to flank them in force. I keep ALL of my Infantry hidden in the trenches and buildings. I keep my AT dudes in the upper floors, but the tanks/ACPs never seem to get close enough.

Anyway, what do you do?

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I have't played as the Syrians yet so I cant help you on that.

As for the Americans, I keep the whole force at the jump off point and pick off the Syrian Armor as it comes into view. Then i move my M1s down the hill. Usally you want to lead with you armor. Getting on top of the hill is not gamey. If you can, take the high ground all the time. I have done it my self.

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I played as syrians first cause I figured that would be the harder of the two. It is, slightly. Lost 4 bimps, both AT4's and 20 men but wiped out the US (AI doesn't favor moving M1's to the hilltops).

Then I played US of course knowing where the syrians would appear so I was aggressive. Lost an M1 and 2 crew with 1 infantry later wounded, otherwise it's a massacre. 1 M1 did take 3 frontal 125mm hits, I was worried there as this could take you out with a lucky hit from 400 meters. I suffered only minor track damage. I don't know how CMSF models critical hits, but a flat trajectory 125mm shot from that short range could hit the turret ring or drivers hatch (slim chance, but it would be a total loss). I was slightly higher than the firing 72s, so this would lower the chance of either type of hit. I was surprised to miss several shots at that range, but then again this was after my bell was rang a few times which can't be good for the gunner's concentration or the targeting system. In non-combat conditions it's virtually unthinkable to miss with the 120 at 400 meters vs stationary targets. You don't need to lase the target, just clear your firing solution and aim centermass.

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As US - I rushed the back of the hill, snuck a spotter around to the side, sent tanks up the hill first, strikers behind, spotter called mortars on soft targets, wiped out the enemy, took the line with infantry with not a single loss on my part. Not gamey, just tactics - use the terrain (take the high ground) & use your assets effectively.

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This is best tactic that i managed to use as Syria.

BMPs to hill. Their job is to watch & destory enemy on smaller hill (usually that is 2 M1A2s it seems). I place them so that they can't (or shouldn't!) be spotted/destoryed from anywhere else but from that hill.

AT-4s somewhat behind that smaller hill... terrain is issue there, so i also have out them to rooftops (which works better). rest of the infantry is located in buildings which doesn't have ATGMs (or they will die for nothing). I usully leave the trench unoccupied and put those guys behind buildings to safe spots.

Idea of this is that weakest weapons (BMPs and AT-4 that is) killzones cross each of other. M1A2s are exposed to side hits. Infact in my "tactic" weakest AT-weapons have main role in destorying M1A2s. This comes with fact that AT-4s will most likely be killed, and some BMP might make it alive.

T-72s just wait behind hill. They can fire to small hill, but they most likely have to pull back, as they don't see well to that hill but enemy tanks sees them well. One M1A2 will toast several of them with luck. So mainly at start their role is to destory enemies which closes in the town. T-72s steps in assault when M1A2s are killed: They are the big boys who poke only smaller guys ;) At this point additional BMP platoon will join the assault as well.

I was quite stunned to see 3 BMPs destroy 2 M1A2s as M1A2 were having fun with my T-72s (2 of them were destoryed). I was sure that BMPs wouldn't see a thing (bad NVGs) so they would be the decoy while T-72s would then destroy M1A2s. Another time with bit different tactic (T-72s had more aggressive role, which was bad choise) gave same results.

[ August 01, 2007, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Secondbrooks ]

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'Smashing Metal'.

I've also gotten a total US victory, 0 casualties, Elite, by advancing very methodically (and letting the M2A1s take the lead). Nothing special involved. Keep the Strykers out of probable LOS in deployment and group the M1A2s for a methodical center advance. They've got ample firepower and the first several vehicle kills will be essentially free (units moving across your field of fire as you sit tight). Never needed to dismount the infantry.

Having a harder time duping the same feat as the Syrians.

Obs. 1 -- AI will direct mortar fire in the initial deployment area of ATGM teams, regardless of whether there's anybody there. So don't put them there -- even if the mortar fire -didn't- happen immediately, it would, and LOS is much too far away.

Obs. 2 -- trench isn't THAT great concealment. Hidden troops, short-cover-arc troops there will be spotted while enemy vehicles are still a decent distance away. Units in trench will be suppressed and killed fast. So, don't rely on these too much, even ATGM teams in trench that manage to fire at 220m-away targets before being spotted have a pretty good track record for missing entirely.

OTOH AI will not pre-emptively smash the buildings with cannonfire, but against a human opponent this isn't the safest assumption...

Obs. 3 -- your BMPs are very panicky and fragile, even when supported by T-72s right next to them. Crews fleeing perfectly intact vehicles is modeled, I can tell you.

Obs. 4 -- 1 or 2 enemy M1A2 on the left hill can, with ease, kill any and all your vehicles on most interesting positions on the right hill before your vehicles spot the shooter, courtesy of much superior spotting/targeting systems and training I'd suspect. Some LOS/LOF glitches don't seem to help much. As in "you've just lost four tanks to one-shot kills from a single enemy tank (spotting according to other units) and none of your vehicles ever saw an enemy". Been there, done that.

Obs. 5 -- AI game plan does indeed involve taking that left hill for M1A2 overwatch, if you don't. For reason above, this will cause problems.

Option 1 -- Gamble early; keep BMPs on extreme left flank, pop smoke and rush towards hill but -back from crest- so you don't end up in LOS of entire force and dying in seconds. Save T-72s for when reinforcements arrive. Objective -- deny hill. Managed to smash all US vehicles, kill/wound all but one, with pretty minor losses doing this -- but got lucky with a BMP vs M1A2 duel.

Option 2 -- Gamble early, gamble hard. Same thing, but load ATGM teams in, and set up ATGM teams on some convenient overwatch. Pray at least one of 'em survives the first dozen seconds. Pray that the ATGM teams deploy before they die. If they all die, the situation turns into an inferior Option 3 (no BMPs/ATGM teams).

Option 3 -- Delay the gamble, but watch it turn into a bloodbath later. BMPs on right flank, mass with T-72s incl reinforcements, shred infantry advance (will likely incl 2 MG teams, one rifle, backed by Strykers). Bloodbath comes when M1A2s take left hill and start smashing you from long range while your T-72s won't even spot them unbuttoned while they're (M1A2s) shooting. You either cede ground and let the Strykers smash the trenches and buildings while saving your vehicles, or engage and lose many vehicles, but also quite possibly kill/wound every single US personnel and destroy all their vehicles(managed this, but at high cost).

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As the Syrians the win is easy. The T-72s do it all. All you have to do is drive the first set up the reverse slope of the right side hill but refrain from crossing the crest. As more T-72s arrive, drive them up there, too. Make the backside of that hill mass a crawling mass of T-72s.

Then the US is toast, pretty much. The AI will come down the pipe or over the left hill, and will show flanks doing so. Your guys in the village just need to relay where the US is to the T-72s, who then hunt forward and left, staying below the overall crest. They get LOS to the left side hill or the pipe without showing themselves to the main US set up area or anything earlier on the US path.

As a result, they will practically always engaged the US force piecemeal, and hull down, and flanked, and at relatively close range. Plus numbers, equals toasty Americans.

If the M-1s come straight over your hill, they crest right on top nearly a dozen T-72s at point blank range, and in a relatively wide arc right below them. Somebody gets a flank shot or angled side hit, on the turret at least. And that close the 125mm is dangerous regardless. You might trade for a few, but no worse than that.

Once the M-1s are dead you can crest en masse and kill everything in a couple minutes flat.

The Syrian BMPs, on the other hand, are less useful. They can try to AT snipe from behind the 2 story buildings in the town, but are likely to be outmatched if they can see anything, and are relatively slow to get a missile to a target. The foot teams have a similar problem - easy to miss, readily hit and suppressed as soon as they fire, etc.

You can't count on stealth to protect anybody, either, because US optics are good and there is very little cover for the number of units you have. Essentially every US area fire shot will hit somebody, and the buildings won't last if he starts firing. The AI won't systematically level the buildings, but a human readily can.

Personally I lost the initial BMPs trying the sniping thing, including some weird shots right over the one story buildings. The later ones stayed out of it behind the right side hill until pretty much everything was dead. I put them up on the crest to overwatch in case the US was about to get reinforcements.

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i just played it once in veteran, we go. was a pretty lucky game.

1 T72 smoked 2 M1´s with side shots while they where speeding to the left mapedge in turn 2 or so.

this same tank on the right, distracted the 3rd M1 wich lead to its kill by my 2nd deployed tank on the left back side of the hill, the others where waiting behind the left hill(from syrian side) doing nothing.

but by that point just one M1 was left. i climbed the left hill as i just had 1 tank on the right side in a way the M1 couldnt see me from below in the "vally". from there the strikers including mounted inf got shot in 2 turns. next turn AI surrendered with 1 M1 left :D

cheep but worked...

EDIT:

i have to add, 1 of my ATGM teams got spotted and shot without doing any action.

i lost 2 bmp´s wich i thought are hidden behind buildings, the others where hidden behind the hills as i saw no real use in them with M1´s goin about.

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Yeah, I tried hiding the BMPs behind the buildings, but the AI just blew up the buildings and killed them, lol. They're best hidden behind the terrain. They can actually take out some Strykers when placed behind the smaller hill.

I'm gonna try like a hit and run with the AT4 guys. Maybe they'll survive for a little while after exposing themselves with their first shots.

The most important thing with the US is to keep your M1s facing the right direction so they take out the T72s the minute they spot them.

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