peleprodigy Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Pure and simple, the artillery can hit my tanks without even seeing them from over a km away. that is not realism, that is called cheating ai. i am in saint lo mission, and am very careful to keep my armor below the crest of the slope, and am certain that there is no line of sight to the hordes of artillery and tanks around saint lo. without fail, the enemy will open fire and one by one begin to eliminate my tanks. it can hit a moving target, without even seeing it, and I call BS. i read about uncanny spotting abilities on reviews and thought that the reviewers were just daft, but after reloading that mission for the 12th time, I now fully understand what they were saying. sorry 1c, not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartari Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 whith the patch too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 yes, most recent patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmayer Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 It seems that the LOS is not really set properly in the game and I too would like it to be fixed. I at first thought this game was lame but have grown to like it for its Graphical and Layed back pace. I do think that the LOS is a bit wierd and would like to have knowledge on how to addjust it so men can sneak up on tanks without being shot down . The game at the moment has not much playability because of lack of ability to sneak up on the enemy. Seems that all the men and tanks have super human sight and no matter what you do they will see you comming even in tall grass and behind bushes. Please Battlefront or 1C fix this issue so as the game may become playable and enjoyable. Thanks to all for making a most wonderful start to a clasic gameset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartari Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I have recently done a lot of tests and for me, the terrain stops pretty good the LOS. With the patch, the men can really hide if they don't shoot, it seems better in the grass than in the bushes and trees. Regarding guns, I have to admit there's something weird, they can hide only behind bushes but they are detected easily at less than 300 meters, even if they don't shoot. Better hide them behind walls or houses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 I am trying to hide them behind mother earth, to no avail. I love the game's presentation, but without any LOS indicator like in the combat mission series, I have to rely on the viewpoints of units. Fair enough, added realism, right? The answer is no, because i am looking at dirt and the tops of trees as i hear the sound of a shell fly in and knock out my front turret. If the germans were that omniscient on the battlefield, well, I would probably be typing this in german. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmayer Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I agree with the fact the game is wonderfull. I play it just to watch the action take place. I only feel that if the LOS was more realistic the game would play better and have a purpose. I love the game don't get me wrong and hope that someone will make up a tutorial for Trigger Writting because I feel that if I were to know how to scritp triggers better I could have many more hours of enjoyment from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 ugh, i just tried saint lo again, and once again i get a tank taken out by an at gun. and i have infantry in an advance position to spot the at gun when it shoots, but even though the little red cone thingy extends well beyond the position from which the at gun is firing from, i don't get a positive id of the AT gun. when i go to the vantage point from where the at gun is shooting (i can see smoke, but that it) and look back at my tank, all i can see are trees. BOOOO 1C, figure out common sense, then talk to me about armor penetration modelling, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 ps-jmayer, did you just agree with yourself that you think the game is wonderful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeboy Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I KNOW that in my modified Villiers Bocage.. funny name for a scen without headgrows, the ground blocks enemy field guns and sight, although they see my tanks before I see them, a reasonable given for a tiger one or two rolling allong. when they are really behind the folds in terriegn they are not seen, and the enemy Brit tank destroyers see and shoot at apx the same time as the tanks I have. Are you "close" to seeing the enemy, ie just below the ridge? or are you well below the ridge? I would guess you are not as far below as you think, are you checking from the grass level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 checking from tank viewpoint. close, yes, but not visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 It is not your imagination, artillery and infantry do not have certain sighting restrictions that vehicular units do. Overall sighting is controlled by a numerical system which uses a fixed factor modified by a ratio determined by the spotting unit vs. what the unit is spotting and it's status. By changing some of these ratios you can change how well a unit spots vs. other units. Or at what range, at least, modified by other terrain factors. You can not, however, change the fact that units in tanks (crewmen) have the same vision level at 360 degrees. So while I can make it so an infantry unit can crawl right up to the rear of tank without being seen, I cannot make it so he cannot do the same thing right up to the front as well. A pretty amazing oversight in game design when you are talking about an otherwise fairly realistic tactical simulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 the thing that really bugs me is that ive also got infantry that are closer, and have a clear vision line to the enemy guns. however it is not until i call an air to ground strike that these become visible. did soldiers have binoculars in WW2? these stinks of a scripted thing rather than a true war game. i finally managed to beat this mission, with a couple of tanks and a motley assortment of 10 or so men (tank crew, broken squads, all bleeding profusely no doubt) and plenty of saves/reloads along the way. i am happy to have beat it, but i still am left with the feeling that the game is cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmayer Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 SlapHappy, How do you change the LoS settings? I would like to be able to make the game playable and need to know where those files are and how to read them. I truly believe this game can and will be great (mostly because of the brave lads who are in the forums that are trying their hardest to make it so) and become a classic for future gamers. P.S. Peleprodigy I guess I was agreeing with myself and the many others who also love this game for what it will become when it is finially made to be playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleprodigy Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 Dont get me wrong, i like it too, particularly for it's grand scale and visuals. i just dont like shortcuts in ai programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 There are definitely anomalies in how the spotting works, but I can't say that I've particularly noticed any cheating (ie the AI is doing things that the player units don't). I've also never seen units getting hit through hills or walls. LOS has problems, but I've not seen the LOF bugs/cheats you talk about. The problems that I have come across are mostly due to the nonsensical way that bushes and trees block LOS - you generally need to be behind several to be blocked from the enemy view. Also it seems that LOS is shared. In one of the German missions you have some tanks which have clear LOS to American AT guns. At the beginning you don't spot them as there seems to be snow or fog. Put the hold fire command on them and sneak infantry forward and when you release the hold fire they open up - usually with uncanny accuracy, as though they were calculating from the infantry's location (infantry still not spotted by the Americans). I suspect that this may be what you're encountering rather than a direct cheat. Needs fixing, but once you get a feel for what's going on it's at least internally consistent and predictable so that you can plan based on that. Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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