I want FOG!!!

[caralampio]

Although I know my way quite well around Windows, software and the Internet, I'm quite ignorant when it comes to hardware. I've been doing some research because I can't see fog in my CM games. Everything else works just fine--even hi-res mods.

At one time or another I've come across information that says that I should upgrade

one or other of the items below. Can someone kindly give me a succint and "for dummies" explanation of what these are, how they relate to each other and differ from each other, and more to the point, which one (hopefully just one) I need to upgrade. And because I want my piece of cake and to eat it too, could you recommend the most low budget item that will do the trick? (I do have some pangs of conscience about plunking down a lot of money just for seeing fog in a few CM scenarios. How do I justify it to the wife? ).

-3D graphics accelerator

-video card

-graphics board

-chip set (sometimes graphics chip set)

My system: P Celeron 566Mhz, 64 MB RAM, Intel 810e Graphics chip set driver

[Ellros]

Well, for starters, you need an Nvidia based video card. ATI based cards do not support fog. The Geforce 2 and TNT2 work extremely well.

[JAK]

So let me get this straight, its ATI thats the problem. A AGP card with Geforce 2 technology should work just fine? Sorry, new to all of this

JAK

[Ellros]

It seems to be that most cards supported by Nvidia are able to support fog tables. ATI cards don't. There are others on this forum that are more knowledgeable in these respects, but that's the basics.

[Schrullenhaft]

3D Graphics Accelerator, video card, graphics board and chipset (to a certain degree) are all referring to one thing in your computer... the hardware used to drive your monitor's display. In your particular case the main logic chipset on the motherboard also happens to have the video built into it (and it uses part of your memory for display memory - a dedicated video card doesn't do this).

I would suggest updating to the latest driver for the i810e chipset. However, upon looking at some of the problems listed for games there is mention that the driver/hardware does not support fog tables ("Linear Fog" is supported ?). So you may not get much out of updating your drivers for the video.

Intel's 810e Drivers (you'll have to select your OS from this page and continue):

http://appsr.cps.intel.com/scripts-df/Product_Filter.asp?ProductID=178

To get fog you'll more than likely have to upgrade to a new and dedicated video card. You'll have to examine your computer closely to figure out what you can upgrade to and how much space you have inside your computer. The i810e-based motherboards typically don't have an AGP slot for a video card (a higher performance bus slot). So you will have to select a PCI video card. Now if your case is really small, then you may have few options in upgrading your video since there may be size limiations for the video card.

To get fog you will most likely have to upgrade to a PCI video card. A PCI GeForce2 MX or TNT2 should work, but again there may be some size limitations with your case.

The ATI brand of video cards has problems with Fog Tables under DirectX. They don't seem to have this problem on the Apple side (where they were the chipset of choice for Apple's built-in video) under RAVE.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[BloodyBucket]

You sound like me. I purchased a 32MB Maxi-Gamer Cougar PCI video card just to see fog in CM .

I am not a hardware geek, and the advice given by others sounds right to me. In December of 2000, that card cost me $99 at a local computer store. It has a smaller "pipeline"? than the more expensive TNT type cards, being an M64. In english, I think that means that the data has a bottleneck to deal with that the more expensive non-M64 cards don't have.

My machine is only a 350 Mhz Aptiva, and it runs CM just fine, so I didn't care. If you want to have a card that runs the latest first person shooters smoothly, you gotta pony up the bucks for a better card and a faster system. My wife would kill me.

My Aptiva had a 8MB ATI chipset and would not show fog. The TNT card cured that. I popped it in myself, and the biggest problem I had was not figuring out that the monitor had to be plugged in to the back of the card .

PS. The fog is worth it. Looks like a movie.

[Olle Petersson]

A PCI GeForce2 MX or TNT2 should work,...Strange that everybody fail to mention the middle(?)way;

GeForce 256, better than TNT2 and not crippled like the GeForce2 MX (that is faster with SDR than DDR).

Cheers

Olle

[Schrullenhaft]

I'm not sure that the GeForce 256 comes in a PCI version. That's the main limiting factor here since most of the i810e-based motherboards don't have an AGP slot.

[caralampio]

Thanks for all the responses. According to my Compaq's manual, it accepts PCI and AGP cards. I have found at a local store Riva TNT2 AGP cards, 16 and 32 Meg, at a real good price. However when I told the salesman that I had a Compaq he balked and said that I might have compatibility problems because the cards are generic and don't get along so well with some brand name computers.

I tried to contact Creative but it's impossible to get through. At Compaq forum, I did find some posts where people complained about problems with boot up or modems after installing new video cards.

Some suggested that there could be less trouble if the upgrade is only a 3D graphics accelerator to be added to the base video card.

Should I go ahead and buy the TNT2, or take the easy path and forget fog?

[Schrullenhaft]

Changing hardware on your computer can almost always be a hassle. However if you want fog bad enough it could very well be worth it (that and I'm sure you'd be able to use higher res mods more easily with a 32Mb AGP card). The decision is completely yours as to how much of a hassle you may be willing to put up with in order to get fog. It may be a simple experience or a completely exasperating one. You may want to insist on a return/exchange policy from whoever you purchase from in case you decide to back out of your upgrade.

There is the possibility of compatibility problems with your Compaq. But that is quite possibly true of many machines. I don't think that the generic cards that were for sale would pose any additional problems over a name brand card like Creative Labs. On occasion that is true, but most manufacturers are going with reference designs from the chip manufacturers, so the biggest differences usually are ones of memory/part quality, construction quality and warranty/support (which you'll have a hard-to-impossible time getting with a generic).

Since you have an AGP slot, you may want to look around at prices and see what you can afford. You can move up to the GeForce line (of which there are several variants) for some additional speed/abilities over the TNT2 line.

3D-only graphics accelarators hardly exist anymore. The Voodoo 1 & 2's (and the OEMs built around them) where the most famous examples of these and they are considered quite old now.

One of the things that may affect you and the devices you have installed in your Compaq may be the sharing of IRQs that may result when you install the AGP card. Right now your built in video (i810e) is considered an 'AGP device' and should most likely be using an IRQ. If it isn't, then adding an AGP card will almost assuredly require an IRQ that may be used by another device. This is quite OK under Windows and Plug-n-Play, but for a number of devices this can cause problems with the drivers and how stable they perform.

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by caralampio:

Thanks for all the responses. According to my Compaq's manual, it accepts PCI and AGP cards. I have found at a local store Riva TNT2 AGP cards, 16 and 32 Meg, at a real good price. However when I told the salesman that I had a Compaq he balked and said that I might have compatibility problems because the cards are generic and don't get along so well with some brand name computers.

I tried to contact Creative but it's impossible to get through. At Compaq forum, I did find some posts where people complained about problems with boot up or modems after installing new video cards.

Some suggested that there could be less trouble if the upgrade is only a 3D graphics accelerator to be added to the base video card.

Should I go ahead and buy the TNT2, or take the easy path and forget fog?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh, there's your problem. You have a Compaq. The Mac of Windows-based systems. By that I mean that Compaqs must use hardware made by Compaq. So you'll probably have to do your shopping through Compaq itself. BTW, Gateway 2000 systems aren't much better for that matter. Dell is about your best bet for pre-built, mail-order PCs. But that doesn't answer your question. But anyway...

[caralampio]

Done some more research and it seems it's a real hassle. I'm just not that savvy.

Drat.

I'm stuck with this system for a while, but the next will be a Dell. Oh well.