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How do bushes affect LOS?


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I'm not exactly sure how LOS work for bushes. For example, I placed a gun behind a reasonable sized bush and went into first person view and the icons of several tanks were full red even though there is no way at all the unit could see them.

Does this mean that they can see my unit as well?

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I'm interested to an answer to this as well. I'm finding it very hard to get a grip on what's going on with LOS. Typically I'll move a group of infantry to behind a row of hedges in prone line formation and they seem to get the same amount of cover regardless of whether they're behind a bush graphic or not. Trees are equally confusing, although based on how tanks seem to collision detect with them possibly it's the radius of the canopy? I'm getting used to the (frustrating) lack of waypoints but the LOS is just trial and error and I have no idea whether my guessing is right or wrong.

Have fun

Finn

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I agree, trees and bushes do seem to be having an effect - but quite where you need to be exactly to gain that effect or to what degree they affect LOS and/or LOF is not at all obvious. If it were you wouldn't be seeing all these threads/posts about it.

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Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

Trees and bushes DO affect LOS.

In what way? I can name you a dozen instances where my units were being fired upon and being hit by uber gun aces through 4 rows of trees. Command and Conquer of War.....err sorry Theatre of War has uber optics in these WW2 tanks not to mention an awesome LOS. I'm being being hit by the enemy and returning fire through walls, trees, and buildings. Played 4 battles now in Command and Conquer of War, and am finding that LOS is real gamey. What I have noticed is LOS is effected by hills but I think that one is a gimme.
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Originally posted by someone:

I'm not exactly sure how LOS work for bushes. For example, I placed a gun behind a reasonable sized bush and went into first person view and the icons of several tanks were full red even though there is no way at all the unit could see them.

Does this mean that they can see my unit as well?

select unit, press Enter, see on enemy
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When I first tried the demo and dragged the targeting cursor toward an enemy I couldn't tell from the ui what kind of LOS/LOF I had. The targeting arrow seems to give direction only. Later I learned that colour of the cross hairs above visible enemy units is your only guide.

It would be great if you had a [fanfare] Close Combat type of system where changes to LOS/LOF are reflected in the colour of the visualised line between target and eye/weapon. That would also indicate what kind of effect obstacles were having on LOF.

Infantry seem to die in and around what cover there is (trenches included) with seemingly inexplicable ease. If you could see what their concealment/cover is then maybe they could be repositioned.

The fact that this kind of individual unit spotting feedback is not available to the player makes you suspicious about the code dealing with the whole issue. Maybe unfairly.

As someone related, only the curvature of the earth seems to protect with any degree of reliablity.

The issue of cover is what made Squad Assault, et al, heart-sink games for me. The dynamic of prolonged, exciting firefights was missing.

It seems weapons are either totally exposed and firing or totally hidden and inactive. In reality, units pop in and out of shelter! But there is no order you can give you units that reflects this - aside from pausing second by second. The AI doesn't seem to do it.

Having blurted that out I have to say this game is overall definitely worth the money and effort of learning the commands that can help minimise this.

This game has got what it takes to provide many hours of satisfying gaming with really cool moments and some irritating stuff which might be ironed out if enough people invest in it.

waypoints

improved cover / los /lof feedback

more infantry

more units (prolly subject to better AI)

Thanks for the demo, I bought the game and am very glad I did (getting good UK exchange rate too) - keep up the good work!! :D

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This LOS thing is the most frustrating part of the game.

It's fine to say "well, you can see through a few trees" but if one is setting up an AT gun, it's not much use.

Can my AT gun be seen or not?

What's its field of fire?

At the moment, there's absolutely no way of telling...

The lack of a hide is annoying too...(stop waving at that T-34!!! :mad: ).

Still, as they say, the game's good, but it could be great... ;)

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Originally posted by Vegeorite:

I suppose the problem is then, keeping the player informed and feeling realistic.

Precisely. ;)

Some sort of idea would be helpful.

If I select a unit, I should have some idea if it can or cannot see through those 10 trees or not...

Whether he can see what's actually there (a prone sniper versus a King Tiger) is a different issue... smile.gif

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Thanks for the info. I dont really mind if the game uses true LOS or not which it appears not to but like other people have said, I would like to have some idea of how good my concealment/visibility is from a particular place.

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Originally posted by someone:

Thanks for the info. I dont really mind if the game uses true LOS or not which it appears not to but like other people have said, I would like to have some idea of how good my concealment/visibility is from a particular place.

From what I have noticed, it is a safe bet to assume that you are not safe from any particular place/woods and assume that you can pretty much have LOS on the enemy from anywhere (exception being on the other side of a hill) and have a half decent chance of inflicting some sort of damage on his tank with no clear LOS.
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Originally posted by Elmar Bijlsma:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hijinx:

It will all become clear if you watch
</font>Elmar, you have now inspired me to make a video of Theater of war to the soundtrack of that Monty Python skit... :D
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Games like CC and CM 's LOS are too sterile... pausing and checking out every possible LOS and this somehow gets back to the commander. I know one guy who would spend 40 minutes setting up his units in CC checking every LOS possibility.

This game implies units do their own LOS thing and thats a good thing if it's coded right..otherwise its fubar. Some screws ups are just fog of war.

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Originally posted by MajorPrivate:

I am digging this game, but I would certainly like to see the LOS issues resolved.

More than a few trees should really affect LOS.

I have been shot through part of a village and many trees

You are digging this game are you. I feel you are the the minority but for the time being I am willing to use my cd copy as a coaster for my beer till 1C patches it. Now you want to talk about LOS through a few trees. Play the Russian campaign on Vet and take the hill above the town so to speak. I took a first person view of what I could and could not see on that small ridge and basically I had a forest between me and the enemy. Incredibly, I was getting picked off and firing as well from behind a forest. This is not a minor issue this is a major blunder on somebody's part. Is this game supposed to be in between CC and CM. Is this WW2 game supposed to have a bit of realism about it. Hell in this state, GIC and Squad Assault were more advanced than this out of the box. Maybe I missed something here. Maybe this game is for Command and Conquer type players. If that is the case then the LOS issue is fine the way it is and no patch is really necessary except to have all tanks fire there AP semi automatic rounds at 3 per second. :rolleyes:
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