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Questions about new 'British' screenshots


theBrit
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It was bound to happen, whilst checking out your excellent selection of new screens I noted some elements that I need to clarify.

Firstly I note that you as the player can view from the enemies perspective, is this an option and can it be toggled on/off for realism?

Secondly I note that the Enfield has an 'aimed' range of 2560 metres, surely that’s not effective range or maximum range as the ranges for both are:

Effective: 900m

Maximum: 2000m

?

Your Mills bombs (grenades) also have a similar odd range of 40 metres, this too seems excessive?

I only have checked my Nations stats, I wonder if anyone else has noted oddities?

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I thought I'd post this here to keep the update thread clear.

Good find!

Originally posted by Flanker15:

Here's an odditty:

In this screen:

http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/pages/ww2%202007-02-03%2016-03-49-92.html

The 37mm gun has a much lower velocity and penetration.

But in this screen:

http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/pages/ww2%202007-02-03%2016-05-18-61.html

It's almost twice as fast and much better at beating armor! I don't understand!

Wait I see that it has a 1937 shell in the first screen and 35 in the second but they are both AP so why the big difference and wouldn't a later AP shell be better not worse?

Ok I figured it out the Shell Mle is for HE rounds and Shot Mle is AP but that dosn't explain why it has a AP icon in the loaded shell indicator.

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I quess that there have been so many changes that none can anymore keep a clear track of all oddities that they might have caused.

The "no building entry" thing is a major pain in the back side thing for me at least.

No snipers or observers in tall buildings, armor can take cover one side against an inpenetrable building and be sure that no grenades or demo charges are coming from that direction. etc.

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I'd think the worse place you could take shelter during a full-up assault would be a stick-construction wood building. Forget about heavy mgs, a 9mm Luger would blow holes in one side and out the other! Brick buildings would do a little better, cinder block and stone better still. Reinforced concrete cellar walls would probably be relatively rare in 1940s Europe?

So from the discussion can I assume ToW buildings are not 'destroyable' in the game? In CM tanks can shelter behind buildings but with a little effort the buildings can be knocked down.

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Even though infantry can't enter buildings, the fight near or in hamlets is nevertheless very dangerous for the attacking force. Most of the hamlet's are fenced in and have bushes, so it's very hard to spot enemy infantry, especially from a tank. It's very easy for enemy to destroy your tank with weapons like bazooka or even hand grenades. And it's hard to storm a hamlet with infantry, because even one machinegunner can be very tough to take out.

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Originally posted by theBrit:

It was bound to happen, whilst checking out your excellent selection of new screens I noted some elements that I need to clarify.

Firstly I note that you as the player can view from the enemies perspective, is this an option and can it be toggled on/off for realism?

Secondly I note that the Enfield has an 'aimed' range of 2560 metres, surely that’s not effective range or maximum range as the ranges for both are:

Effective: 900m

Maximum: 2000m

?

Your Mills bombs (grenades) also have a similar odd range of 40 metres, this too seems excessive?

I only have checked my Nations stats, I wonder if anyone else has noted oddities?

Sorry to press you guys at BF but any comments on the above?
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The answer to my question to the French shell penetrations was: the values were for the coaxial MG not the cannon. The 40m nade throw is a mystery, perhapse it's a typo and it's ment to say 40ft? As for the rifle range, that could be the extreme maximum range where the bullet just falls out of the air.

Update: I did some experimenting and found that: 40m is a reasonable throw distance for an object of that weight. I threw some rocks outside and found that the furthest they would go is about 30-45m when I used all my stength. Gammon bombs are surposed to be about 320g so I used rocks of about that weight for the test. 40m is an ok MAX range but you would probably throw them closer in combat to minimise fatigue and exposure.

[ February 12, 2007, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: Flanker15 ]

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I hope you are not planning in performing this kind of field studys when the game is out and there are debates going on about penetration values and the resistance of a Willys Jeep or a Kübelwagen against gunfire. Maybe the impact of nearby exploding grenades on the morale of a group of soldier would win you some nice discussions and explanaitions.

Uwe

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Its not a debate, I am asking why the Enfield and Grenades have extended ranges thats all! If BF say its because of so and so....then thats it, period.

As for the the ability to view from the enemies perspective thats important to me as I'd prefer if thats optional.

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I have to admit as well that I have often wondered some of the "max" range numbers I have seen in ToW seem to be higher than what I would have thought. As suggested above, it does seem that when 1c listed the max range in those tables, they quoted the max theoritical range.

Why did they do this and not list the max effective range, probably because "effective range" is very subjective and changes constantly depending on battlefeild conditions.

Madmatt

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Just an idea, bunkers are included in the game, so a possibility might be to treat a building as a weakly armoured bunker, with light weapons, i.e typical squad armament, rifles, sub-machine guns, grenades, with limited all round fire positions to reflect the number of soldiers that can fire out of a typical house withan elevation of 4/6/8 windows (to reflect the size of the house) it might not be a realistic solution, but a stop gap solution until a real model is programmed, this would reflect the strong point that a village or hamlet could potentially be if defended and fortified.

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Originally posted by Madmatt:

I have to admit as well that I have often wondered some of the "max" range numbers I have seen in ToW seem to be higher than what I would have thought. As suggested above, it does seem that when 1c listed the max range in those tables, they quoted the max theoritical range.

Why did they do this and not list the max effective range, probably because "effective range" is very subjective and changes constantly depending on battlefeild conditions.

Madmatt

Thanks for the response, perhaps these details will be teaked in later patches.

What about Fog of War when it comes to veiwing from the enemies perspective? Is it an option?

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What about Fog of War when it comes to veiwing from the enemies perspective? Is it an option?
I don't really understand your question. Bt there is no option to view from the enemies perspective. You can move the camera where you want on the battlefield. But you will always see only your units and spotted enemies.
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Sorry I never worded it correctly.

So you have free camera movement, interesting. When I said Fog of War I did mean are you restricted to viewing only the areas of the Map you can see....you appear to have answered my question.

Free camera movement, anywhere on the map, even into enemy controlled areas. Thanks!

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Originally posted by theBrit:

I thought I'd post this here to keep the update thread clear.

Good find!

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Flanker15:

Here's an odditty:

In this screen:

http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/pages/ww2%202007-02-03%2016-03-49-92.html

The 37mm gun has a much lower velocity and penetration.

But in this screen:

http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/pages/ww2%202007-02-03%2016-05-18-61.html

It's almost twice as fast and much better at beating armor! I don't understand!

Wait I see that it has a 1937 shell in the first screen and 35 in the second but they are both AP so why the big difference and wouldn't a later AP shell be better not worse?

Ok I figured it out the Shell Mle is for HE rounds and Shot Mle is AP but that dosn't explain why it has a AP icon in the loaded shell indicator.

</font>
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