Historical 1939 Mod - Beta Version Out

[Steve Rogers]

UPDATE: 25th July

The Beta Version and the Custom Interface is available now from here:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/strategiccommand2/

in the 'files' section.

please note: This is only a beta version for playtesting.

The interface can be used with any mod and full instructions are given on the site.

Be sure to download and install ALL the files in the custom interface section.

Permission is granted for the files to be hosted anywhere and please credit me.

Custom Localisation settings are included.

---------------------------------

I've nearly completed a major mod called Historical 1939.

Some of the features are:

- All of Blashy's well-thought out changes are included, nothing changed - thanks for permission Blashy

-Accurate orders of battle for all major nations as of September 3rd 1939 (100%complete)

- Historical Event Popups (70% complete)

These are for flavour and a sense of history unfolding.

Examples: Churchill becomes Prime Minister, Heydrich Attacked In Prague, Manhatten Project Begins).

- Custom Interface (100% complete)

- Other historic additions (Such as the German Volkssturm appearing in Germany at the time it is threatened)

-Numerous other additions

I have researched this as much as possible and kept it within historical and realistic limits.

I have not thrown around values or anything else arbitarily - everything has been carefully thought out.

New Localisation terms:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

;

; 1939 Historical - Custom Text

;

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

; Unit IDs

#BOMBERS= Bomber Group

#ROCKETS= Flying Bombs

#BATTLESHIP= Heavy Battlegroup

#CRUISER= Cruiser Battlegroup

#CARRIER= Carrier Group

#SUB= Submarine Group

; GAME (Right Click Options)

#CMD_UPGRADE= Upgrade Unit

#CMD_TRANSPORT= Sea Transport

#CMD_OPERATE= Rebase

#CMD_AMPHIBIOUS_TRANSPORT= Amphibious Assault

#CMD_UNLOAD= Disembark

#CMD_PROPERTIES= Details

; AI Text

#DEFENSIVE_ASSESSMENT= Strategic Assessment...

#PROTECT_CAPITALS= Garrison Capitals...

#PROTECT_CITIES= Garrison Cities...

#PROTECT= Defend...

#OPPORTUNITY= Exploiting...

#PROTECTIVE_MOVEMENT= Defensive Movement

#OFFENSIVE_PLANNING= Offensive Planning...

#REORGANIZATION= Reorganizing...

#NAVAL_REORGANIZATION= Naval Manoeuvres...

#PLACEMENT= Rebasing...

#THINKING= High Command Meeting...

; Resource IDs

#MINE= Industry

; Research IDs

#INFANTRY_WEAPONS= Infantry Technology

#HEAVY_TANKS= Armoured Technology

#JETS= Aircraft Technology

#HEAVY_BOMBERS= Bomber Technology

#GUN_LAYING_RADAR= Naval Technology

#ADVANCED_SUBS= Submarine Technology

#ROCKETS= Rocket Technology

#ANTI_TANK_WEAPONS= Anti-Tank Weaponry

#PRODUCTION_TECHNOLOGY= Assembly Line Production

#INDUSTRIAL_TECHNOLOGY= War Industry

[ July 25, 2006, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Steve Rogers]

To be included:

Volkssturm Units

The Allies were approaching Paris, which was liberated on the 25th of August, and in the east, the Red Army had already advanced on Lvov, Minsk and were nearly at Warsaw...

( From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturm )

"The Volkssturm had existed officially since 1935, however it was only after Hitler ordered Martin Bormann to recruit 6 million men for this militia that the group became a physical reality. The basic unit was a battalion of 642 men and the units were mostly composed of members of the Hitler Youth, invalids, or men who had previously been considered unfit for military service. The Volkssturm was under the ultimate command of the Home Army which, in late 1944 and early 1945, was commanded by Heinrich Himmler."

------------------------

The Volkssturm units appear to be weak but if the Axis player (or AI) manages to reinforce them, they can perhaps delay the allied advance in the west (likely, closer to Germany). They are a desperate hope for Germany in its final days.

There were 920 battalions in Greater Germany = aprox. 92,000 men.

This figure divided by 15,000 (division size) = 18.4 Corps Strength Points.

Historically, the Volkssturm were briefly trained in the use of the Karabiner 98k rifle and Panzerfaust (No Infantry Tech upgrades and maybe 1 point in anti-tank weapons)

------------------------

; Volkssturm

; This event will be called (by the game engine) when Germany is threatened by the allies late in the war

{

#NAME= Volkssturm

#POPUP= Volkssturm - All men between 16 to 60 years of age are conscripted

#FLAG= 1

#TYPE= 1

#COUNTRY_ID= 5

#TRIGGER= 100

#DATE=1944/10/18

#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 84,16

; Set Condition Position:

; 1st Line - Allied units within range of Warsaw

; 2nd Line - Allied units within range of Minsk

; 3rd Line - Allied units within range of Paris

; 4rd Line - Allied units within range of Ploesti

; 5th Line - Axis units occupy Warsaw

; 6th Line - Axis units occupy Paris

#CONDITION_POSITION= 95,15 [1,1] [1,20] [2]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 102,14 [1,1] [1,20] [2]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 69,18 [1,1] [1,20] [2]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 101,20 [1,1] [1,20] [2]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 95,15 [0,0] [1,1] [1]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 69,18 [0,0] [1,1] [1]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 1st]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 3rd]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 5th]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 9th]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 11th]

#UNIT= 1 [3] [0] [Volkssturm 13th]

}

-------------------------------------

Hopefully, this will trigger correctly!

By the way, is it possible to set more than one #DESTINATION_RESOURCE in the same event?

[ July 25, 2006, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Kuniworth]

looking forward to this one

[Scook]

Do you hear that sound, Mr. Rogers? That is the sound on inevitability. Your mod is destined to be played by the likes of me.

[Fartknock3r]

LOL scook. Keep up the good work! Looks great.

[Steve Rogers]

[Kuniworth]

hey can we get some info on what changes you made to the OOB

[Steve Rogers]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

hey can we get some info on what changes you made to the OOB

Wow, well I would have to go through the editor and make a list of each unit and that would take quite some time.

In brief:

I went through the historical OOBs and listed the Armies and seperate corps (not attached to armies).

In general, there are many more land units for all nations, but many are under-strength, and not as modernised as Germany's forces.

Germany starts with FOUR Air Fleets. I'm not making this up:

Luftlotte III in the west, near France, Luftflotte IV near to the Polish western border, Luftflotte I in the North near to Stettin and Koluft HG Nord, in Konigsberg, East Prussia.

You will see the Luftwaffe attack the UK after the fall of France and bomb the hell out of London, its port and any Royal Navy groups that are around. Your single UK Fighter Command Air Fleet will be vital for survival, and you will find you MUST keep it reinforced. Doesn't this sound familiar?

Here's an example of the French OOB:

HQ Gamelin

1st DCR (left as is, even though French tanks were spread out in 'penny packets'.

4th and 7th Armies: Benelux border, both at Strength 5

3rd, 2nd, 9th Armies: Maginot Line, full strength

1st FAF: left as is.

Alps Army: adjacent to North Italian border, Strength 5

8th Army: Southern Italian border, coast, Strength 5

Nav. Aeront. Air Fleet Strength 2, near to port of Toulon

Expeditionnaire Army, Strength 5 Corps, Marseilles

Troops de Maroc Corps, Strength 1, Casablanca

19th Military Region Corps, Strength 5, Algiers

Tunis Corps, Strength 5, Tunis

Moyen-Orient Air Fleet, Beirut, Strength 1

Troop strengths are based on two factors:

Historical troop strength &

Unit Composition:

1 corps = 3 to 5 divisions (dpending on nationality), so 3 strength points = 1 division in general, a half-strength division = 1 strength point. Yes, it is possible to reinforce all of these units but these nations (France & Italy) will not simply have the MPPs to do so, and will of course lose strength through combat, so many of these units will maybe never reach full-strength.

On playtest it takes a while for the French to reinforce all their Benelux border troops and the 1st FAF Air Fleet to full strength. This appears accurate.

I'll list more but it takes a while...

[ July 24, 2006, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Big Al]

I am curious to compare it to mine. I modded my 1939 scenario for historical OOBs. Changed experience on units to reflect how good they were.

Germans +1 XP on land and ships, +0.5 air

UK +1 ships, +0.5 air

Russia, Italy, US: zero

Plopped in the right amount of units added more corp to the russians at weaker strengths.

Although I do not know how to script.

[Steve Rogers]

Originally posted by Big Al:

I am curious to compare it to mine. I modded my 1939 scenario for historical OOBs. Changed experience on units to reflect how good they were.

Germans +1 XP on land and ships, +0.5 air

UK +1 ships, +0.5 air

Russia, Italy, US: zero

I tried this based on stats for experience converted accurately from another well-researched game, and Germany wiped the floor with everyone.

Perhaps I will include this version as an option for play-testing.

EDIT:

If we were to go down this route, I would consider giving those Red Army units that survived the Winter War some experience too, as well as a *tiny* amount of extra experience for the Air Fleet that had Legion Condor present (Spanish Civil War Luftwaffe unit).

We do actually have all the formulae in the manual need to calculate these additions...

[ July 24, 2006, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Blashy]

4 AFs for Germany and 1 for UK, that is historical?

The UK won the battle of britain, they had close to equal numbers, not quite but not far and I think I remember that they were outproducing Germany in terms of AFs by the end of 41? (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Remember that historical OOB on the scale of the default map will clutter the map with tons of units.

This is why Hubert has it abbreviated. That is why the OOB for the Navies is half in the mod I made, not too far from what Hubert has.

Well, just a comment, the editor is free for all for everyone of course .

[Steve Rogers]

Originally posted by Blashy:

4 AFs for Germany and 1 for UK, that is historical?

The UK won the battle of britain, they had close to equal numbers, not quite but not far and I think I remember that they were outproducing Germany in terms of AFs by the end of 41? (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Remember that historical OOB on the scale of the default map will clutter the map with tons of units.

This is why Hubert has it abbreviated. That is why the OOB for the Navies is half in the mod I made, not too far from what Hubert has.

Well, just a comment, the editor is free for all for everyone of course .

Hi Blashy, Yes, I know about the abbreviated OOB's - the navies are left as is. The problem lies with integrating Fighters, Interceptors and close support aircraft together into a single Air Fleet.

When combining all aircraft of a single Luftlotte, the result is that Germany does have 4 Air Fleets.

I may have included Tactical bombers also...I will double check this. It's important that this is as accurate as possible. If it means including an understrength Bomber, then so be it.

EDIT: It just occurred to me, Germany used He-111's as their main Strategic Bomber, not comparable at all to the UK and US dedicated bombers, so can we consider lowering The German Bomber unit's relevent ratings by 1? This would allow us to have the He-111's represented seperately without unbalancing things.

Strictly speaking, Koluft HG Nord should be half strength but playing as the Allies, the AI seems to pull this unit out of combat, which wasn't the case in reality, so I increased it to full strength.

The UK Airforce has admittedly not been checked - which is an oversight on my part - I thought I had it nailed, obviously not.

Pointing out errors is the way to go - it can only make things better and this is why the mod needs to be playtested.

Checklist:

-Re-check UK Air Force strengths and adjust.

It may be worthwhile looking into the actual Battle Of Britain strengths to gauge forces, and also in the case of the UK, consider mandatory Air Fleets at the game start already in production.

Offhand, I know the UK used Radar bases to incredible effect as part of their defense so I will also look into a way of translating this into game terms (it isnt just bomber defense Radar).

-Re-check Luftwaffe OOB and seperate tactical bombers into a probable under-strength bomber unit, and reduce Air Fleets accordingly.

As it is, the map is not cluttered, even with historical OOB's - really. I hate cluttered maps.

I do want to get the whole thing perfect, so please, criticisms are not just welcome, they are required.

[ July 24, 2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Steve Rogers]

Blashy, here is what I have:

September 3rd 1939

UK Mainland

3 Fighter groups

3 Tactical Bomber groups

2 Strategic Bomber groups

2 Naval Bomber groups

Germany

11 Fighter groups

10 Tactical Bomber groups (generally He-111's)

5 Close Air Support groups (generally Stukas)

The problem may lie in the fact German groups may

not have the numbers the UK does.

I'm going to have to go into individual group strengths.

Here is the general breakdown and location of German air groups on September 3rd 1939.

Koluft HG Nord (Konigsberg)

2 Fighter groups

1 Tactical Bomber group

1 Close Air Support group

Luftlotte III (Frankfurt)

3 Fighter groups

1 Tactical Bomber group

II Fliegerkorps (Frankfurt)

3 Tactical Bomber groups

1 Close Air Support group

Luftlotte II (Hannover)

2 Fighter groups

1 Tactical Bomber group

III Fliegerkorps (Stettin)

1 Fighter group

1 Close Air Support group

1 Tactical Bomber group

Luftlotte I (Stettin)

2 Fighter groups

2 Tactical Bomber groups

Luftlotte IV (Oppeln)

1 Fighter group

1 Close Air Support group

2 Tactical Bomber groups

I Fliegerkorps (Oppeln)

1 Close Air Support group

Based on these numbers, If Fighters + Close Air support + Tactical Bombers = the components of a single Air Fleet, the ratio is

GER 26 Vs. UK 6 = 4.33:1 which is 4 Air Fleets for Germany, and 1 for UK which is what I listed.

However, this does not appear correct so what I propose is this:

Bearing in mind that the manual states that Bomber groups are also Naval Bombers, and assuming Air Fleets also contain Close Air Support and Tactical Bombers, how do you suggest I work this?

What I feel is that the UK should have 2 Extra Air Fleets in the production queue ready for August/September 1940. What do you think? Otherwise the UK would be hard-pressed (if not impossible) to purchase these 2 units. Reducing the cost of Air Fleets for the UK is possible but this may leave the UK over-powered.

The Battle of Britain & air defense of the UK is a main historical point, so I think the 2 Air Fleets in the queue would be acceptable, give the historical result needed and allow Germany its 4 Air Fleets.

Second Option:

Assume half of Germany's He-111's are used as Strategic Bombers.

Reduce Germany's Airpower by 1 Air Fleet, and give it a Bomber Unit with Strategic Attack values at minus 1.

[ July 24, 2006, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[SeaMonkey]

Steve, I remember researching this once before. I'm not at "la casa" presently, but I have the Luftwaffe handbook at home with the actual numbers(operational also) and deployments at the war beginning.

From memory, the actual operational aircraft and the numbers counted are different. Remember not all the aircraft are worthy at any moment for combat, usually around 80% for the Luftwaffe, better for the UK.

As I remember it, you could represent 4 luftflottes but one would be only at half strength at best, in Sept. 1939. I believe 2 luftflottes were full strength, one nearly there and the other like I said (half), that could be the HB unit.

I'll check it out later and post if you wish.

[Fartknock3r]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Of_britain

under 'dowding system' it shows the 4 air groups that defended britains 4 airpaces.

http://www.battleofbritain.net/contents-index.html

[John C]

Those screens look sharp with the graphic inlays. Very nice job.

[Steve Rogers]

Seamonkey - this is basically what I got at first, so you've confirmed this for me

Originally posted by Fartknock3r:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Of_britain

under 'dowding system' it shows the 4 air groups that defended britains 4 airpaces.

http://www.battleofbritain.net/contents-index.html

Thanks for this Fartknock3r-

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Of_britain

"The Luftwaffe regrouped after the Battle of France into THREE Luftflotten (Air Fleets) on the UK's southern and northern flanks. Luftflotte 2, commanded by Generalfeldmarschall Albert Kesselring, was responsible for the bombing of southeast England and the London area. Luftflotte 3, commanded by Generalfeldmarschall Hugo Sperrle, was responsible for the West Country, Midlands, and northwest England. Luftflotte 5, commanded by Generaloberst Hans-Jürgen Stumpff from his headquarters in Norway, had responsibility for the north of England and Scotland. As the battle progressed command responsibility shifted, with Luftflotte 3 taking more responsibility for the night Blitz while the main attack fell upon Luftflotte 2's shoulders. Late in the battle an Italian expeditionary force, the Corpo Aereo Italiano, briefly joined the fighting."

In game terms this means at the start of war I would consider the inital Air Fleets as:

Germany

Luftlotte 1 Air Fleet (Stettin)

Luftlotte 2 Air Fleet (Hannover) strength 8

Luftlotte 3 Bomber, strength 5 (Frankfurt)

Luftlotte 4 Air Fleet (Oppeln)

Koluft HG Nord, Removed, abstracted by Luftlotte 1 & 4 both at strength 10

So, Germany has 2 Air Fleets positioned near Poland, 1 under strength Air Fleet for protecton against France and the Bomber.

UK

As is:

1 Air Fleet (Fighter Command - Groups 10+11)

1 Bomber

As this stands. if the UK gained an air fleet by August 1940, the numbers would be balanced for an 'Historical Battle Of Britain'.

By August 1940:

UK would receive (or build) Air Fleet #2 (Groups 12&13)

I will playtest the possibility of building this air unit by August 1940 -if this is not possible I will include it on the production queue for this time.

Germany should have positioned Luftflotte 2 & 3 in France and Luftflotte 5 (renamed Luftlotte 1 or 4, reinforced) in Norway (if invaded) or France, failing that.

This would of course have Germany with 2 Air Fleets and 1 Bomber verses UK's 2 Air Fleets.

This sounds more like it.

[ July 25, 2006, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Steve Rogers]

The Beta Version and the Custom Interface is available now from here:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/strategiccommand2/

in the 'files' section.

please note: This is only a beta version for playtesting.

IMPORTANT: If you downloaded this mod within 30 minutes of this post you need to re-download it.

The interface can be used with any mod and full instructions are given on the site.

Be sure to download and install ALL the files in the custom interface section.

Permission is granted for the files to be hosted anywhere and please credit me & Blashy.

Custom Localisation settings are included.

[ July 25, 2006, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Steve Rogers ]

[Kuniworth]

I think you should post this at www.cmmods.com instead, partly because it's simpler to dowwnload from and partly because it's better to have all sc2 mods at the same place.

[Steve Rogers]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

I think you should post this at www.cmmods.com instead, partly because it's simpler to dowwnload from and partly because it's better to have all sc2 mods at the same place.

Hi Kuniworth -will do as soon as the beta has the bugs and errors fixed and all player feedback has been taken into account. As you can appreciate it's best to get this playable before it goes on that site but anyone has permission to post it there if they like.

[Steve Rogers]

I'm not happy with the way this is testing - there are some weird occurances like Germany's failure to conquer France until September 1940, even though it has more forces(playing as the Allies)and a few other things.

I may have to look into the A.I., but this means devoting more time than I have.

If this doesn't work out there are a few good things that have come from my work - the interface, the custom localisation and the historical event scripts.

[aesopo]

My comment - Germany can rush into Benelux in rd 1 and get an early invasion of France - I knocked out France in January of 1940. I propose to set up a fortress of Ebermayel (am I right?) that was knocked out by a German commando raid with an entrenched Benelux unit sitting in it as to force the German player to swing forces from Poland to the French front, I know Steve you have done a lot of research to represent the actual OOBs but perhaps a little tweaking is needed to prevent Germany from rushing in (or maybe an event script to that heightens USA entry if the DOW on Benelux is right in the middle of the Poland campaign.

[Blashy]

Steve, I suggest you post it on cmmods, even if it is beta, you can delete it once you have the completed version and post that one.

I'm still weary of actual OOB for the scale of the map. You can't have ALL the corps, armies and tanks, so you have to scale them.

Like the Navy, in my mod it is scaled to half of actual BBs, CAs and CVs, all other ship types are not in the game.

What scale have you used for land units?

[Steve Rogers]

Originally posted by Blashy:

Steve, I suggest you post it on cmmods, even if it is beta, you can delete it once you have the completed version and post that one.

I'm still weary of actual OOB for the scale of the map. You can't have ALL the corps, armies and tanks, so you have to scale them.

Like the Navy, in my mod it is scaled to half of actual BBs, CAs and CVs, all other ship types are not in the game.

What scale have you used for land units?

The scale is simply Armies and the few Corps Groups that were around. I've not changed anything - what is there is how the OOB was in Army Groups and Corps.

This is annoying because I thought I had it nailed.

I think I may have been too optimistic to do this, but this was just a test run because the real project is a modern-day mod. I know it's a "Macro Game" but it's all experience for me anyway, seeing what is achievable with the game engine.

I know how it *would* work - if the map was doubled in size.

In any case Blashy, I think the interface worked well and the POPUP script with the historical event adds a bit of flavour.

[Blashy]

See, now you have a project, double the map size, hehe.