Drop ship manouvering

[Kurtz]

They way things are now, drop ships drop straight down, but can manouver during the ascent.

Pros:

You can drop just outside known enemy AA range, knowing that the DS will not enter the AA zone.

Cons:

- When you have been dropped, the dropship often manouver into the AA zone and get shot down.

- It's fairly easy (at least for bots) to hit a DS during the descent when it's not manouvering.

I guess the thought is that the DS can't manouver when it's burdened with a vehicle. But it feels like a sitting duck.

On the other hand, if manouvering is added during the descent, you will not be able to drop near AA for fear that your DS might manouver into the AA zone.

The manouvering during ascent looks unpredictable, I've seen DS's swooping along the ground long distances before ascending.

I think some manouvering (e.g. spiralling) during descent would be a nice addition. It will make the DS harder to hit while still having some control of where it will fly.

[yurch]

I just made two 5700 meter 120mm HEAT dropship shots in a row. While this is a bit extreme, I do think obvious drops should have a very poor survival rate. It's irritating to kill the same guy three times and have him drop mines or yet another tank right next to you. You're pretty much going to die if several players do it at once. Where's the strategy in that?

The thing I don't like about the dropships is that they're so precise, and therefore, very persistant. As attacker, I sometimes try to setup AA turrets behind our advance so we don't get defenders dropping behind us.

It's near impossible.

Dropships can place a tank on a dime, any crack in AA defense can be exploited easily. If not, the enemy just drops a mere 1-2k outside the defense and makes a hole in it, often killing a good percentage of the existing AA. The inclusion of jammers into the mix may keep players guessing, and a little more respectful of the distance, but it doesn't stop them long. Bots are uneffected.

It takes a long time in the (now very limited availibility) command track to set up any respectfully sized AA (which are also limited) network up. It is tedious work at that. Turrets in sizable craters (to keep them from getting spotted) also aren't terribly effective at even hitting the dropships. Since the ships first 'appear' from such a low height, the turret gets maybe one shot before the angle is too great for it to hit outside the hole.

Without any AA, this game is downright chaotic, and I would say not very strategic at all. It really does destroy any need for manuvering. I fear most of the area in large maps simply won't be used - why do that when you can drop by the objectives?

And so, in a dropship thread, I manage to make a request for ground AA to be made better. It doesn't make much sense for the AA turrets to be sitting on the dreaded uni-stand (thus increasing the profile and requiring it to be put in rediculous sized holes for protection) and they could probably stand to have a longer range and effective kill probability, mainly to reduce the number (and tedium) needed to cover/clear an area. I did not mind the previous inventory count - they certainly die fast enough - I think the main problem with it was that the defender deploy area restriction wasn't being employed. (shouldn't it default to some setting other than 'entire map'?)

I'm thinking maybe double the coverage.

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by yurch:

It's irritating to kill the same guy three times and have him drop mines or yet another tank right next to you. You're pretty much going to die if several players do it at once. Where's the strategy in that?

Dropping mines on top of people is fun.

But it's kind of silly that you can do that.

The thing I don't like about the dropships is that they're so precise /.../

Dropships can place a tank on a dime, any crack in AA defense can be exploited easily.

Manouvering during descent would reduce the precision. And jammer cover would leave the dropper guessing if there is a crack or not.

If not, the enemy just drops a mere 1-2k outside the defense and makes a hole in it, often killing a good percentage of the existing AA.

But this is partly an effect of the topography. If the terrain would allow turrets to be hidden, it would be harder to kill them, as you pointed out.

It takes a long time in the (now very limited availibility) command track to set up any respectfully sized AA (which are also limited) network up. It is tedious work at that.

I agree. This is partly because you can only have one drop active at the same time. You have to wait until the drop of a deployable is completed and the DS has "disappeared" before you an drop next. However, you can extract deplyables at the same time as you're dropping.

And so, in a dropship thread, I manage to make a request for ground AA to be made better. It doesn't make much sense for the AA turrets to be sitting on the dreaded uni-stand (thus increasing the profile and requiring it to be put in rediculous sized holes for protection) and they could probably stand to have a longer range and effective kill probability

A mortar-like stand would make more sense since it will always point upwards. The range of the things are currrently rather long,I'm not sure increasing the range would be the best option. Is this moddable?

I think the main problem with it was that the defender deploy area restriction wasn't being employed. (shouldn't it default to some setting other than 'entire map'?)

The deployment zone seem to be a circle, but the radius can of course be larger than the distance to the corners.

[poesel]

yurch, you need to give me a tip on how to shoot a DS. I never seem to hit those things.

Yes, the dropships make the game chaotic. No real frontline. Its like in comparison every unit of a modern army would be airborne.

Its a nice shock tactic to drop own units behind the enemy but if everyone can do it evertime its ppointless.

I hope the scenarios will have 'conquerable' dropzones. That way dropping would be restricted to the areas you really own.

I would like to see the command track and the engineer having the ability to drop AA, jammers,... on the spot where they are (not by dropship). Especially the cutter has enough space in his back to store those.

That would give especially the command track a reason to get involved more. Currently I don't know why this vehicle exists at all: the commander could as well sit in the liveship and give the orders from there.

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by poesel71:

I would like to see the command track and the engineer having the ability to drop AA, jammers,... on the spot where they are (not by dropship). Especially the cutter has enough space in his back to store those.

That would give especially the command track a reason to get involved more. Currently I don't know why this vehicle exists at all: the commander could as well sit in the liveship and give the orders from there.

The Command vehicle - useless or important?

[yurch]

Right click on dropship to set range, lead it downwards. The ships do move forwards a slight tad sometimes, so try to hit the nose. Use HEAT if you can, 90% of hits will kill the ship. It gets hard with something like 76mm AP.

When I'm not currently fighting, I can spot and destroy most single-unjammed drops within 2000m quite reliably, and I've made shots out to 5900m, jammed and unjammed alike. If I understand correctly, 2000m is the max range of the AA turrets. You'd think a dedicated AA platform would be better than some guy in a tank. I'm fairly sure you can mod it (MaximumRange: 2000.0), but I have no idea if the circles will update correctly. Terrain does has an effect on the AA - just because a ship is in range doesn't mean the turret will always take it down. They're just like the ground turrets though... they just shoot single dumb purple blobs.

To me, a "conqured" dropzone is a jammed area that's outside enemy visual attention. This is where I usually want to drop. Since jammers are so common, I don't think an increased AA range would really be so hard to get around with teamwork scenarios.

The "single drop rule" I completely understand and wouldn't want removed. It would seriously suck to have 18 dropships come out of the sky in short order to drop a whole minefield in front of me and eight turrets behind.

[Junglist]

So that's how you do it!

[cool breeze]

I agree that there should be a limit on dropping deployables capability, but I wish the ship didnt have to leave copletely first. At least we should get a indicator saying when our drop request will work. I end up watching the command map (space button) to see when they dissapear. I also think we sould be able to change vehicles or order extracts while dropping things and getting taken up. But please, give us a "OK to drop" indicator.

Thanks, Im preordering today.