Feelings on the game after lots and lots of play time

[Battlefront.com]

yllamana,

Also, if I got blindsided by someone using a different type of weapon (ignoring for now the somewhat common ATGM balance complaints) then that was my tactical mistake and I can take steps to prevent it in future. If I'm suddenly pegged by a random mortar shell flying out of nowhere without any warning then that's just frustrating.

I think this needs to be chalked up to "personal preference" rather than some sort of flaw in the game system. For me, I have zero problem with this on both the giving and receiving end. During development I had a lot more issues with the 120 and ATGM than mortars. At one point both were "one hit one kill" experiences and THAT was frustrating. So we went through many revisions. Mortars, on the other hand, I think are working fine.

Mortars are extremely inflexible and only effective in very specific circumstances. When they are effective, they are VERY effective. Which is true for any weapon used correctly. But unlike the other weapons, the range of circumstances where they work well is far smaller than the other weapon systems. I use mortar vehicle sometimes, but not very often for that very reason.

What one needs to do is identify where the enemy is staging these attacks from. Usually it is some out of the way place in a vally or up on the backside of a hill somewhere out of sight. This underscores the importance of sensors. Once you find the spot it is pretty easy to render it practically useless. Place turrets or have one of your team members patrol with a Hermes or Ion based vehicle if the area is hotly contested. But usually a single AA turret can claim many victims before it is neutralized or, better still, abandoned as a staging area for mortar attacks.

So there you go. Two ways to deal with mortars. The first is to keep moving (something I am sure most people don't do enough of). Second is to hunt down the bastard, nail him, and boobytrap his little home away from home.

Personally, I really LIKE this aspect of the game. It keeps things interesting. On more than one occasion we, as a team, had to deal with something like this and it was fun IMHO. Someone would volunteer, or be designated by the team leader, to hunt down the menace and make him pay. Usually this was failry easy to do and resulted in the other guy losing a couple of dropships in the process. Great to see the chatlines coming back from said player

Anyway, as I said above I think this one comes down to play style and preference. I think it is a GOOD part of the game, you think it is a BAD part of the game. Any game with depth will have such features, so the fact that DropTeam has one is a positive thing.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Thomm,

Nevertheless I think my concept of placing AG turrets along the *inside* walls of the base gave the attackers some considerable headaches ...

Yeah, well placed turrets can really make a difference. One of our testers had very bad lag so the only thing he could do was place turrets. There is one map that is nearly all small hills closely packed together. On this map he was King Turret He would place them in the most difficult to see/hit places, along good attack routes, with VERY short distances to potential targets. You usually got blown up before you even saw the turret. Worse, trying to neutralize it with direct fire weapons was almost impossible. Eventually I'd manage to knock it out and then I'd sit around and blow up a bunch of his dropships to even up the score

To tie this in with my previous post, I think that taking out a well placed turret is far more "frustrating" than mortars. The main reason is that I feel I should be able to nail the stupid thing without dying so many times. So each time I get nailed I get more annoyed that I've still not succeeded in what should have been a simple mission. BUT... this is part of the game and, overall, a good thing. If we didn't run into problems like this from time to time, then the game would be too predictable and too easy. People would stop playing it in far greater numbers than those who get "frustrated". Nothing kills interest in a game than a lack of depth.

Steve

[Thomm]

I also tried a "90 degree keyhole" technique at the concave angles at the outside of the base, bunching up 3 AG turrets into each corner. Sure, they did die quicker than the ones well hidden inside, but before they died they produced some really nice fireworks

Best regards,

Thomm

PS: Is there any official opinion regarding the effectiveness of the 76mm cannon?

[Battlefront.com]

I can't offer an official opinion since I am just a tester, but I'll offer a plain old opinion

The 76mm probably should have another looksie. It is supposed to be a good compromise between the massive 120mm and the puny 20mm. The rate of fire is not as good as the 20mm, but the ammo supply is much larger than the 120mm. The 76mm used to be very good at picking off lighter vehicles and pretty good at causing damage to other vehicles. Perhaps not killing them, but posing enough of a problem that they can't be ignored.

Maybe something changed late in the beta test period (I've not been able to test for the last month ) that made this not work out as well as before? Fortunately, Claytonious Rex is collecting shot data so I'm sure he is all over this!

Steve

[RiflemanIII]

Another thing that seems to be overlooked concerning defense against the IDF mortars is that the automated gun on the Paladin EW can shoot them down.

[yllamana]

Originally posted by RiflemanIII:

Another thing that seems to be overlooked concerning defense against the IDF mortars is that the automated gun on the Paladin EW can shoot them down.

I haven't noticed this to be effective against the MC-H. Generally the Hermes either misses or you just end up with an air blast that's still lethal since the plasma shells are so powerful.

Steve, just in brief: I agree entirely that it's a matter of opinion. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Just giving mine. We've been experimenting with things like mortar counter-fire using the command car to spot (seems fairly effective) and defensive mortars (seem very effective, frequently disabling vehicles or just destroying them outright). Still not sure that this isn't frustrating for the people involved, but okay.

[Sig]

Hello,

Just some comment about the driving: took a bit of time to master well and am still learning... But as far as I'm concerned, I like it. You can do very nice manoeuvers with a fast vehicle once you get use to the inertia (special mention for the Ice map..fun). In fact what I did when I first started to game was to grab one of these Paladin 76mm and drive around like a mad man (never tipped over on bumpy land, but fell down a few slopes ), trying to scout and be a nuisance. After 10 minutes, worked quite well. I am still fumbling with the "turn" key from time to time (for instance using E instead of D..bleh), but all in all, it seems I get it.

The tip given in the manual that one should not hold the acceleration key (W) all the time but use it in brust is dead on (at least for fast units) and proved both a relief for my finger and a pain for enemies trying to hit me. Driving like mad and erratically is fun, and I guess that once you're be able to fire laterally at a medium target while at full speed (AND hit ), these fast units can be real nuisances.

Concerning the flipping: well, all I can say is that these are absolutely great moments of fun! And force me to improve my steering. I also think that w/o this risk, the fast units (once perfectly mastered by players) could be a bit overpowered on bumpy maps. Would be like the mogolian cavalery swarming the polish heavy knights, hitting and running away with impunity before retaliation. Would like to do that, but I'm not sure it's fun if you are on the receving end. With that risk of flipping, you have to control your speed and I really think it increases realism.

Sig

[Thomm]

The 'X' key does magic when driving the Hurricane - converts it into a stationary gun platform within a second!

Best regards,

Thomm

[poldi]

i still think the hurricane is too strong. AA turrets dont seem to be able to kill hurricane shots. when u place them in the ice field base they always get killed by the hurricane. i just joined a game that had nearly come to an end. but within the last 3 minutes of the game i still had like 8 kills (with 7 shots and 2 hits ?!?) or something. moving doesnt really help avoiding the hurricane as its easy to hit even moving targets on a great distance when u place your first shot well (after the enemy noticed whtas going on he might move more unpredictable).

i think it would be breat if the hurricane had to be stopped before shooting and put on the ground with the brakes. so you cant just rush around the map with it any more.

currently i use it to rush around the icefield and just kill everything with a single shot. this feels kinda wrong to me.

[ March 23, 2006, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: poldi ]

[Netherby]

Only the Hermes and Ion Beam Towers will shoot down any mortar rounds, the Hermes will generally only take it out a shot distance above the ground resulting in an air burst.. Which is just as nasty as it hitting the ground, but not so nasty as it hitting you directly..

Im not sure where this idea that AA deployables can shoot down Artillery or Missiles came from, perhaps due to putting them near the Ion Beam installations in the other map? But anyway they only provide protection from dropships

[ March 23, 2006, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Netherby ]

[makaera]

I agree that the Hurricane is very powerful, but from a philosophical standpoint I don't think it should be too much weaker. Just in shorter supply. It is reasonable to expect there to be really powerful units, however, they should be limited to 2 or 3 per team since they are probably more difficult to construct than the other types of units.

Maybe team commanders could be given a point budget with which to select a mix of vehicles. Only these vehicles would be available for drop. By making the Hurricane expensive enough they would become precious (i.e. you wouldn't dare lose one, since it couldn't be replaced). If the drivers had to be more cautious it might add some balance.

Personally, I am a Shrike driver. I will trade speed for armor any day. BTW, I only flip when I do stupid things, the driving interface has not really caused me any trouble. The ATGM is probably a little too powerful, however I would add more countermeasures rather than limiting the number. (This type of vehicle seems easier to fab than the Hurricane.) In fact, I would like to see the ability to program more attack patterns for the ATGM, i.e. different trajectories to reach the target.

I would also like to see the ability to program the mouse wheel. I would like to use it to zoom, scroll up to zoom in and scroll down to zoom out. I do this in other games, so this is what feels natural to me. It doesn't have to be a continuous zoom, just a switch between zoom levels.

Finally, what is the current re-loading mechanism. Lots of times I will fire 10 ATGM's and would really like a dropship to come be and re-supply. Is this possible? As it is I usually extract and re-deploy, is this the best way?

[Thomm]

Originally posted by makaera:

Finally, what is the current re-loading mechanism. Lots of times I will fire 10 ATGM's and would really like a dropship to come be and re-supply. Is this possible? As it is I usually extract and re-deploy, is this the best way?

Press Ctrl-R and mark a location for a reload dropship to land! Then move close to it until a connection between you and the dropship is established (a grey strut). Watch your ammo count increase. After your magazine is full you can simply drive away.

Have to have the letter R at the left end of the status bar for resupply to be available.

From the manual:

The Liveship can dispatch a Galaxy class dropship to the battlefield on request. The Galaxy dropship is a behemoth, loaded with ammunition and fuel that can be used to resupply friendly units on the ground and bristling with point defense ion cannons. These point defense cannons are driven by a fast, hardened AI sub-persona with a rich sensor suite, enabling it to shoot down enemy projectiles in mid-flight. When you call for a resupply mission you will be prompted to pick a landing point for the Galaxy dropship. The Galaxy will descend and attempt to land at the specified point. As soon as it touches down, it will automatically attach its umbilical to the nearest friendly unit that is within the umbilical's range and begin supplying additional ammunition and fuel to the unit (up to its maximum capacity). It will also automatically engage incoming enemy fire with its point defense cannons. The Galaxy will loiter at the landing zone for up to two minutes before retracting its umbilicals and dusting off to return to the Liveship. This means that resupply missions can be used in a variety of ways. The defense afforded by its ion cannons makes it tactically useful even beyond its original mission of resupply. It can be used creatively to cover friendly forces in offensive or defensive roles.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Netherby]

But remember resupply ships are team wide, so don't be too greedy!

[weasello]

Also, if you have a team commander voted in only he can order the resupply ship.

[makaera]

Thanks. I probably should do a more in-depth read on the manual. It was only last night that I finally got a chance to start playing, so I just skimmed through the manual and jumped in. Maybe if I had actually read it I would know these things.