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Non-bug Feedback Request


ClaytoniousRex
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I think having just one patch where the bots fire the ion at maximum rate and with some semblance of accuracy, people will come to thier senses about that thing. tongue.gif

Speaking of patches, I'm not sure if I like the recent one much. I'm getting tons of one hit 120mm kills, especially with HEAT, and mobility kills are becoming very common. Thor is becoming way too slow for whatever extra protection it offers, and the other vehicles barely have any to begin with.

I actually think the hurricane armor is a step in the wrong direction. Making it such a glass cannon (the tempest is better protected) doesn't fix what people really hate about it, and that is getting shot with it. In a light vehicle, I usually:

1) Get immobilized under enemy AA

2) Empty my weapons in rage at hurricane

3) Die afterwards

If it's a thor, replace 1 & 2 with loss of the turret or death by topshot at long range.

The only thing that dropping the armor on the hurri does is make event #2 more dangerous to it, as well as any preemptive fire. This assumes it isn't loitering by a support ship or already zoomed out of view. It's always going to get that extremely effective first shot off, it's mobile chassis nature assures that. That shot might be even more effective now with the fragmentation increases.

I killed plenty of hurricanes today, but I really didn't see a drop in thier usage. Everybody wants to take the "big boy" out for a spin, and this lack of, well, a sensible role or niche for it is going to make sure it's still used. Killing everything that moves with oversized explosions will always be "needed", this is not an appropriate role or function for a weapon that's supposed to be used in a team game.

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Decreasing the Hurricane's armor was NOT an attempt to address the reported balance issues with the Hurricane. Reducing its armor values has been done in response to the earlier change which made armor slopes more sensitive. Since the Hurricane is one of a few vehicles with an unusually high amount of sloping on its armor, we've been reducing its armor thickness simply because it "accidentally" became too tough due to the previous change.

We're still looking at the balance issue itself and haven't settled on a final fix for it yet. One of the problems is that there are supposed to be fewer Hurricanes on each team (from 1 to 3 instead of the current 4 to 7 or so) - this is a problem with the inventory system that we're looking at now.

Whatever the solution to the Hurricane's balance problem is, here's a little insight into our design philosophy: there is never any requirement that all units in the game be "equal". Not only are all unit types better in some situations than others, but some unit types are *usually* better than some others in *most* situations. As a modern day analogy, you might have a force with some T-72 tanks and some T-80 tanks. Well, obviously, the T-80 is just simply better than the T-72, but the reality is that the force has to make do with some slightly less effective tanks.

It's also quite fun to have some really fearsome, powerful units on the field. It's exciting when you hear a team mate call out on voice chat "Enemy Hurricane at waypoint 1!!!!" with that special quiver in his voice - then watch as your team rallies and focuses its attention on the new threat. Of course, this is NOT fun if that kind of threat materializes too often and too easily.

I think everyone in this thread agrees with these points, and you're all correct when pointing out how important balance is. It's usually not even this black and white in DropTeam since the mix of unit types and scenarios is interesting: there are occasions when a Shrike is better than a Thor and vice versa, which is great. Currently, the Hurricane is almost always better than anything else no matter what the circumstances (at least on these 2 public test scenarios), which all of you are correctly pointing out as being a problem.

So, yes, we're looking at ways to make the Hurricane less dominating, but the "fix" might not be to directly "nerf" the Hurricane itself - it might simply be to limit its availability or to otherwise make using it more costly for the team as a whole. The goal is certainly not to make it "only as fearsome as a Shrike, but in a different way".

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The "problem" with Hurricanes is with its availabilty, not in the vehicle itself. But I guess that's a decision the scenario maker does? I think a lot of the things we 'complain' about are scenario issues, not game issues - like Hurris and AA turret spamming.

In addition to this, both forces have identical equipment. Great for playtest, but doesn't feel very realistic. Again - a scenario issue.

(I make the assumption the scenario maker can choose vehicle types and quantity)

Lower quantity of vehicles in a scenario could make people more careful - I saw Pilgrim's Tempest on a ballistic trajectory a few minutes ago. Didn't know hovercraft could fly that high! :D

Another thing:

I tested the "foliage" option the other day. Looks nice, but (as expected) gives lower frame rate. But I felt it was harder to play because I didn't see the enemy vehicles on the Raid map because they we're hidden by the grass! But they could of course see me clearly out on the barren plains.

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i'm starting to like the ions. i use the ion thor for armor and stability on slopes (and it cannot shoot in it's upper hull front with the ion like the apollo). the ion seems to be very powerfull, especially on the raid map on one of the hills (the western high hill is a good place). the enemies cannot do much against me sniping them with the ion (at big distance AP won't penetrate and the probability of HEAT hitting a weak spot is very low). the only thing that seemed usefull against me was ATGM...even mortar or hurricane didn't cause much trouble for me, because they had big problems hitting me from that distance.

but it's very annoying to have to hit the fire button so often with the ion. it's pretty hard on the hand after some time. please make it auto fire. if you think it would make the ion too strong, then make it weaker.

also the ion beam makes a big flash on the screen at bigger zoom levels. that makes it hard to target the enemy and see whether i hit him.

the ion seems to be totally devastating agaisnt shrikes and turrets. the turrets are hard to hit with HEAT or HE, but hitting and killing them with ion is a piece of cake.

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RIPper that's the down side of ion beams, i thinks with autofire or no flash effect they will overpower everything else

did you notice the balance between you with the ion thor on the west hill and somebody else on another hill with atgm under turret cover? the twoof you are the only ones that could hit each other

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the flash effect is not too bad, i don't mind it that much (but sometimes it really makes determining whether i hit hard). but i really do mind that there's no autofire. it really puts some strain on my hands after several minutes. ion shouldn't be balanced by annoying controls.

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I think I repeat myself but I think its ridicoulus how tracked vehicles behave on ice.

I was sitting with a Thor in an artillery hole and couldn't get out. The artillery alone should have broken the ice (great pun, eh?) but even the 100+ ton Thor wasn't able to get some grip on the rubble.

Tracked vehicles are already slow but I don't see much difference in handling to the wheeled ones on ice.

I guess that eingine-wise you seem to always slip a certain percentage. But there should be a threshold in speed under which you don't. Lower for wheeled, higher for tracked vehicles.

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Hermes is far better against low-flying hurricane rounds. It is by far the direct counter now.

Has the direct-hit penetration of the hurricane/heavy mortar been reduced? If memory serves, I think it was higher before. If so, this is a good thing for thor.

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on a new 20 inch IMac with intel...I hope to be demonstrating my tactical incompetence by late next week.
I'm sad to report that there is still not a Universal Binary build ready for your new Intel Mac, Dan. However, if you want to volunteer to try out an experimental Universal Build, then please drop me a line!

Otherwise, it will be a few more weeks for the Universal Binary version.

And, sure, I'd be happy to apologize to your wife. Just finished doing that to my own, so I'm on a roll right now.

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Well the other thing that put me over the top was assurances from five separate sources that boot camp works and you can install XP on it too if you futz with the installation enough. Wether you finish the binary before I finish the installation is an open question. But it is a much better problem than staring at a machine that just cannot possibly run the game.

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This is just an request. I really like that the preferences are saved in your homedir. But would you mind placing them in ~/.dropteam/ or something? Because having those files just in ~/ makes everything very distracting.

And one suggestion. There is the ability to have macro's set. The one thing only is that the defaults aren't very usefull. It would be nice (for beginners) if they where.

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Originally posted by Kurtz:

Lower quantity of vehicles in a scenario could make people more careful - I saw Pilgrim's Tempest on a ballistic trajectory a few minutes ago. Didn't know hovercraft could fly that high! :D

Who, me? :D

I was having a bit of fun at the time, but it's actually a valid tactic on the ice map. Pick a target on the opposite side of the road that you're on. Point your Tempest at him, turn your turret backwards and get going fast enough to jump over him. (Note: In the semi-ballistic Tempest launch referred to above, I was going a bit too fast.) Once you land, you're set to blaze away with the ion, and the other guy is (1) still trying to bring his turret to bear, and (2) laughing so hard he can't concentrate.

Voila!

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In the case of the Hermes, you have to hit the berm at an angle so that you do a 360 longitudinal spiral and fire on the Hermes below you while you're upside down.

A good player can knock out the auto-gun on the back before he lands. :eek:

tongue.gif

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