Non-bug Feedback Request

[Thomm]

I want to suggest a change of how multiple user preferences are handled under Linux: Please store the preferences in the root directory of the user and not in the drop team directory. We have problems here with multiple users starting DT from the file server and ending up with screen resolution problems (16:9 versus 4:3).

Thank you for your consideration!

Best regards,

Thomm

[yurch]

Originally posted by Drusus:

I also have a feeling that the mortar shells are a bit weaker due to the patch.

What's wrong with that? Ammo is cheap!

[inktomi19d]

I can notice the change to tracked vehicle responsiveness. It seems about right, though the tendency to spin out on the ice map still bugs me, especially while neutral steering.

The change to penetration angle seems right too, though it makes things more difficult while using the 20mm. Making the 20mm a bit less useful is not a bad thing IMO.

[phil180]

Hi,

I downloaded 0.9.42 and spent some time (too much time, SWMBO would say) playing with it. I broadly agree with a number of other comments:

- Please add an option to reverse the mouse Y-axis.

- 20mm is nice. I don't think it's too powerful.

- 76mm appears hopeless, although it might be that I haven't really got the hang of it yet.

- Not sure about 120mm. Bots with ATGMs tend to curtail my fun with that....

- Visual feedback on damaging hits would be good (but I guess this meant by costly in graphics speed).

- ATGM rapid turns are, erm, exciting. Smoother turns would be better.

- Being able to hold down fire and have continuous fire (or, at least, fire when loaded).

Other stuff:

- Is it possible to damage the tracks of tracked vehicles? (Say, 20mm vs. Thor tracks?)

- I'm not sure that an ATGM lock warning is worthwhile -- if you're not paying attention, you get hit, just the same as with the other weapons. Perhaps add it as a server option?

- Counter-measures when you see them would be nice (chaff and/or smoke).

- I suggest altering the scoring to add `assists' -- i.e., you damaged something that later died (whether suicide or by another means).

- Is there a way to extract a summary of controls? E.g., from data/keycontrols.xml? (I'd like to print a reference to look at as I get shot....)

A very nice game: thanks for letting people at the beta.

Will the final version include the Windows and Linux binaries together, or do we need to buy both versions separately?

[inktomi19d]

Originally posted by phil180:

- Please add an option to reverse the mouse Y-axis.

There is an option, but I missed it too. There's an "advanced" button that will light up when you select the aiming control, and you can adjust sensitivity and invert the axis from a dialogue that pops up. It just wasn't very obvious how to invert the y axis just scanning over the control setup.

[phil180]

Originally posted by inktomi19d:

There is an option, but I missed it too. There's an "advanced" button that will light up when you select the aiming control, and you can adjust sensitivity and invert the axis from a dialogue that pops up. It just wasn't very obvious how to invert the y axis just scanning over the control setup.

Excellent, I will go looking for that later this evening. Just a UI problem, then.

Thanks!

[Bonxa]

I would love a Shrike with a recoilless gun on it. Give it a 100 mm or something, only loaded with heat. About same reload and penetration as the 120 mm. Should make for great fun. No armor, high mobility and good hitting power (little ammo?).

[phil180]

A few more little points:

Am I missing a way to find out if a weapon has reloaded and is ready to fire? (Apart from frantically clicking the mouse....) Perhaps something like a telltale on the display?

Is it possible to have the names of friendly players always displayed in green and the enemy in red? When watching the various kill messages, I find it hard to keep track of how well things are going. (Ditto for messages about flags.)

The comments about bots being too good at downing dropshops with ATGMs and 120mm -- I heartily agree, having watched four of my dropships being spashed in the last five minutes!

Is it possible to kill your own side? (Actually, I can probably answer that myself. Excuse me a moment....)

Nice game.

[ClaytoniousRex]

I want to suggest a change of how multiple user preferences are handled under Linux: Please store the preferences in the root directory of the user and not in the drop team directory.

Absolutely, Rollstoy! You're right.

I would love a Shrike with a recoilless gun on it.

That does sound good.

Am I missing a way to find out if a weapon has reloaded and is ready to fire?

Your reticle turns black while the weapon is reloading. The black reticle slowly returns to normal color; when all of the black is gone the weapon is ready to fire again.

76mm appears hopeless

We hear all of you about this. We're very reluctant to tweak the weapons but this one is indeed looking suspicious. We might end up going along the route that Drusus is taking, by allowing the 76 more internal penetration.

I'm not sure that an ATGM lock warning is worthwhile

Since it will be added in conjunction with countermeasures, you will find it worthwhile.

Is there a way to extract a summary of controls?

Sure, buy the game and look at the controls card on the manual's back cover. From what you have right now, the XML file is all you have to go on and we don't have a friendly tool to print it for you. You could possibly suck into XML Spy or something like that if you want to be adventurous.

[weasello]

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />76mm appears hopeless

We hear all of you about this. We're very reluctant to tweak the weapons but this one is indeed looking suspicious. We might end up going along the route that Drusus is taking, by allowing the 76 more internal penetration.</font>

[RIPper_SVK]

i like to be the commander, and the 20mm on the command vehicle is great in the raid map. there's a lot of places for close combat. btw i met ClaytoniousRex in the game tonight, a pleasant surprise that devs play with us mere mortals

though i don't like that it can penetrate Thor's side. what's the point of a heavy tank if it can be killed by a puny 20mm from the side? Thor's back, engine deck and maybe turret back side should be penetratable by the 20mm. also tracks should be damaged, but only if you hit the part of the tracks that's not covered by the sideskirts.

overall i'm a bit scared by the 20mm's efficiency at close range against the Thor.

if 20mm is so effective, than 120mm would be much more effective. against other vehicles it seems to be just right (maybe it could be a bit more effective against Paladin's or Shrike's front, they're just light wheeled vehicles)

i think a few things would be usefull for the commander. when i call arty, emp, mines or whatnot, a marker with an effective radius should be placed on the map (and on the minimap). so other players from the same team are warned from the arty...maybe play some warning sound too like "artillery incoming" so the player would look on the minimap and see if he's going to the danger zone.

i'd like if the commander (and probably other players) could draw some simple graphics on the map and send them to others. something like this (Steelbeasts game):

(the red "arrows" were made in the planning phase in that game and they can be sent to other players)...i think that even just drawing lines of various colors would be great

though the graphics would be less usefull in Drop Team than in steelbeasts, because the game is much more "fluid". because of dropships the attack directions change quickly. but a very simple tool for drawing something might be usefull.

[yurch]

I've gotten decent with the 76mm. Things to remember are:

1) It outranges the 20mm - you can kill 20mm vehicles in situations where they're mostly just bouncing pellets off of your front.

2) This range, coincidentally, is the range you should STAY at. Only get up close to either bots or stuff you're sure you can kill quick(not much). Get used to driving in wide circles around tanks and figuring out how to compensate for lag.

3) With HE, it's ammocount is big enough to kill an ion tower and still have some HE shells left over. Not many vehicles can do this. (Not like you're going to use HE for much else, either)

4) Get creative. Sometimes it's easier to knock out the turret than the entire tank. Shoot out the tires of paladins chasing you down. Drive up and down hills to prevent getting predictable.

5) Use distractions. Every vehicle has higher front armor than rear armor. It is in your interest to force the enemy to have to choose which direction his armor faces. This includes his turret. If he faces it towards you, waste his time. Speed is on your side. You've now already done your job, and hopefully your other teammate will smash a HEAT round through his side. If he ignores you, go to work dismantling everything he holds dear.

6) This gun is a scalpel, not a chainsaw. Don't ever undertake a tactic that involves you killing x before it does y. Use full zoom, and try to mentally keep track of the state of his vehicle.

edit: I can't spelllll

[ March 30, 2006, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: yurch ]

[inktomi19d]

Originally posted by yurch:

4) Get creative. Sometimes it's easier to knock out the turret than the entire tank. Shoot out the tires of paladins chasing you down. Drive up and down hills to prevent getting predictable.

I've had good luck shooting at turret sides and backs with the 76mm. I normally aim center-mass on the hull with any other gun.

[sillyb]

I would like to suggest NO counter-measures. I think we should have to have a hermes (does that have the autogun? haven't used it myself yet) around to shoot them down for us.

[yurch]

Agreed. There are enough circumstances that completely neuter ATGM's as it is, and those hard counters already make me apprehensive of even taking the launcher vehicle. For what reason would anyone take ATGM's later? Hermes vehicles are popular, antiprojectile towers and the support ship laugh it off, and it takes an average of 2-3 rockets to really have any assurance of taking out the target.

Whenever I get hit with ATGM's it's almost always when I'm alone. I don't mind that.

[Kurtz]

Originally posted by phil180:

The comments about bots being too good at downing dropshops with ATGMs and 120mm -- I heartily agree, having watched four of my dropships being spashed in the last five minutes!

I can live with accuracy of the bots. I thinks it's compensated somewhat by their behaviour. But the ATGMs from the base on the ice map can be really annoying. The effect is that you have drop really far away (if you haven't deployed sensor jammers) and spend a lot of time driving.

More use of sensors and command vehicles will allow you to drop in "safe zones", right now you can find yourself dropping right in the midst of the enemy! :eek:

[aittam]

what about ATGM that once fired high in the sky will allow to see what they see in order to spot a target? with limited time for aquisition.......

[Bernhardt]

Leave Hermes alone. *sob*

I haven't been playing now but last time I checked, Hermes wasn't THAT popular, if popular at all.

I think it's necessary to have one vehicle able to protect convoys from missiles. Otherwise this game might turn into a ATGM fragfest.

If you think Hermes is too powerful *a burst of laughter*, use teamwork. Just like with Hurricanes.

There are lots of vehicles able to destroy a weak Hermes.

EDIT: I'm glad to see you have come up with a strategy with the 76 mm.

[Fellblade]

Some random thoughts after playing the demo for about a week now:

</font>

• I feel that the Hurricane is slightly overpowered in compentent hands. The high speed it can move at means that hit-and-run attacks are very viable, and will decimate an entire armoured column in short order.</font>
• The 'High Definition Rendering' option just seems to display everything in 16 bit colour. I have a Radeon X1800XT 512Mb with the latest Catalyst drivers.</font>
• There are no options for altering the volume of sounds</font>
• The 'music' toggle doesn't stop the irritating noise that is on a loop when maps load. This drives my wife mad.</font>

[pilgrim]

Impressions:

The Good

</font>

• Overall: I like it. I like it a lot. The various weapons, platforms, tactics, and terrain make a nice package.</font>
• I love the damage modeling. I love the fact that you can target the wheel of a Paladin, or the turret of a Thor, and it matters.</font>
• I like the smoke billowing from killed vehicles, how it lingers, and that it does affect spotting.</font>

The Nitpicky
</font>

• The Apollo gun can be depressed low enough that it clips into and through the hull</font>
• Again, on the Apollo: when it flips/rolls over, if the gun is elevated, the gun magically enters the ground and then reappears on the other side of the roll/flip. I'm not sure what to do about it, but it's a bit of a visual oddity.</font>
• I think, when steering the Cutter, the wrong track moves to pivot in place. When I want to pivot left, the right track should move with the left held in place, but yesterday it seemed like the game has it wrong.
  --> Edit: I checked today. It looks like it has the opposite-track moving backwards, so I think everything's ok.</font>

I haven't read much about Drop Team. I was completely uninterested in the product, then I saw there was a public beta, so I thought I'd give it a try. So, I'm still pretty uninformed about it. With that having been said...

The Bad

</font>

• Longevity&Variety. The Paladin description mentions infantry. Will there be any? Are there any platforms that will show up in the retail version that we haven't seen yet? I'm afraid that there isn't quite enough variety here to ensure longevity. (Some previous ideas would help -- a HEAT firing Shrike, etc.)</font>
• I know we're simulating different gravitational environments, but it just seems wrong in a Paladin that I can hit the brakes, hit a bump, and then go tumbling end over end. (BTW, I love that, when that happens, the ATGM/gun/etc. gets destroyed). It reminds me far too much of the radio controlled trucks my boys play with instead of massively (yes, even at 0.6g) heavy armored vehicles.</font>
• The buildings/bases. I'm not sure what it is, but they leave me completely underwhelmed. Too sparse? Uninteresting architecture? I'm not sure I can put my finger on it, but they're not satisfying.</font>
• I'm a little concerned about the price tag. It seems to be an enjoyable game -- and, as I said, your beta converted me from apathetic to very interested -- but my expectations of the play-time I'll get from this don't justify paying full retail. It's a game I'd love to bring home -- it's one of the few FPS types that I'd allow the boys to play -- but not at the $45 price tag I saw mentioned. (Sorry Moon, et al.; I hope this last point doesn't discredit the rest of what I've said).</font>

[ April 05, 2006, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: pilgrim ]

[yurch]

In a low grav enviroment, wouldn't it make more sense for the vehicle to be more prone to skidding instead of flipping? Right now I have more 'accidents' with shrikes/paladins(if you start to lag funny, input can lock for a most inappropriate period...) than I do with hovercraft.

[inktomi19d]

I really don't mind the vehicles rolling so easily. It's really only a problem at full throttle, and armored vehicles have problems with roll-overs at full throttle. Accidents still cause more deaths among soldiers than hostile fire does. Humvees roll easily, Strykers roll easily, M113s roll easily. M1s and Bradley's don't roll quite so easily, but they do roll. 40 km/h is fast enough that a wheeled vehicle might flip while traveling cross country; 60 km/h is fast enough to flip while turning on a level paved surface. I'm not sure if I've ever rolled a vehicle in DropTeam that was traveling less than 60 km/h; most rolls occur at top speed which is 70-100 km/h depending on the vehicle and terrain.

I really think there needs to be a speedometer on the third-person view, just to keep speed in perspective.

[pilgrim]

Originally posted by inktomi19d:

I really don't mind the vehicles rolling so easily.

I'm fine with the rolling, too. In fact, I'm quite impressed with the side-to-side physics -- once the vehicle goes onto two wheels, it's an interesting game to try to get it back on the ground.

It's the back-end-over-front-end tumbling that bothers me.

[yurch]

Yeah, I meant back-front tumbling as well.

More things:

It's possible for a player to cause his team a tremendous amount of grief. Had some guy piling all the turrets onto one spot, ramming players, taking control of bots and shooting friendlies, ect. I can't think of anything specifically to stop all this, but it would be nice to have a specific teamkill/teamdamage message. (right now there's nothing) Would at the very least drive home to the hurri pilots how far that shrapnel can carry.

Input tends to stick when the connection is less than optimal. What I mean is, if you're driving forward, and then release the throttle, you will continue forward at full throttle indefinately. Happens with turning as well.

The Viper is an interesting vehicle, but I think it needs something more to be 'worthy'. Right now, the only thing it's good for (with the exception of flinging enemies, which I expect isn't it's intended role, despite all the abusing I've done in this manner) is the rapid transport and delivery of the hermes jammer vehicle. The jammer covers the craft from automated AA, so the vehicle can be dropped into very hostile territory to serve as jammer cover for the rest of the team to attempt a standard drop in. For any other role(discounting CTF), the Viper is a poor alternative for a standard drop, which is both faster (loading time, communication) and more importantly, safer. Especially when considering input problems like the above, and more below. The Viper could possibly fill a larger role if it was given a point defense similar to the Galaxy, but I'm not sure if that would make it too powerful. Giving it it's own jammer certainly would be overpowered, though. It would be immune to nearly all AA.

The viper has the bad tendancy to lurch in odd directions whenever typing or checking the map. I'm not sure what does this. I also have had a single occurance (in the latest patch!!!) of the 'rapid spinning' associated with picking up a hurricane. Have not been able to reproduce.

[Drusus]

There definitely needs to be messages when you get killed by teammates (or yourself). I happened to be playing on that server on which yurch was and I had no idea what was going on. They voted to kick the offending player but ofcourse I didn't press 'y' because there just wasn't enough information.

About the Hermes: It is great. Is it too good? I don't think so. The angle modifier change has done a lot to weaken it. The angle modifier change has done one other thing, too. The 120mm HEAT is now a lot weaker than it was before. It's penetration is only 200, which means that it can't penetrate almoust anything when there is a bit more angle. I am not talking about extreme angles here. Maybe its penetration needs to be just a bit higher, something like 240?

Sorry to bring this out once more, but the Hurricane is still driving me crazy... Ever tried using Apollo against it? Or any of the wheeled vehicles? Against these vehicles the Hurricane has a great chance of first shot kill. Luckily there is still the Thor that can fight against it. But even Thor seems to be on the taking end when there is good player using the Hurricane. Maybe part of the problem is that playing with 250+ ping makes hitting the Hurricane too hard. I just happen to think that the Hurricane should be either easier to kill, or there should be a bit less of them in the inventory. Same with the Thor mortar. Make it worth hunting them down. One solution: make Hurricanes engine a bit more fragile and a lot bigger. That is, make it get "grounded" easier.

About the longevity of the game: To me it seems there is nothing to stop us making a WWII mod, for example. Should be fun. Only thing needed from the engine side is making it possible to have reinforcement points instead of the drop ships. I think it should be relatively easy to allow this.

And even when there is only a test version with only 2 maps the game is still worth more than most of the games I have seen. We just need European server with 0.942 on it...