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So, who's disappointed?


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flamingknives - I keep wanting to call it Strike Force as well.

RSColonel_131st - There will be modules for other nations, we've been told. So I guess you could wait for those. And I think the point is that the environment you are in and the tools you are given (in the campaign, that is) keep it from being a one-sided battle. As other people have said, in the other CM games people do Stuarts vs. Panthers, and despite the technological difference, that can still be a fun battle, if the scenario designer makes it so. So I think there is more pressure on the scenario designer, but a lot more cool things can be done. And besides, in urban terrain much of the advantages that US tanks receive are nullified. You can kill a T-72 at 4000 yards? Too bad that it is 250 yards away, and used buildings to get a sideshot on you.

One thing I don't get is Europeans not wanting to play as Americans. In the CMx1 games, many people played nationalities other than their own. I'm American, and I play German almost exclusively. In CMBB, all of us Western Europeaners and Americans didn't even have the option of playing our "home side". So, now that it is a new engine we MUST HAVE OUR NATIVE LAND!!! Come on! BFC said long ago that initial modules for pretty much every setting would have Americans to start. Don't we remember all those brainstorms about the Normandy game? US vs. Germans to start, then Commonwealth, then deeper into France, so on and so forth. I kind of assumed that non-Americans

1. Didn't mind playing nationalities other than their own

2. Had steeled themselves for the very likely occurance that their country would not be in the initial release.

Doesn't this make sense?

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I am still about as disappointed as I was before the announcement, over the scale and philosophy of the game. I think it may not lend itself well to quality multiplayer matchups, which will take away from the community.

Having said that I can see the wisdom in making a game of this type. It should be easy to create more plausible and balanced (and fun :eek: ) scenarios than are suggested by the contrived "story". I don't much care what half-baked story has set the scene for the game, as long as the matchups are fun.

I hope to see a focus on capable conventional forces up against the US. Otherwise who would want to play the useless Arabs in a QB. I would find it rather distasteful to hit the "detonate" order on my suicide bomber.

One more point, I don't think the screenies are really ready for "prime-time". They may be in-game graphics, but they don't give much sense of the touted 1:1 representation, nor just how COOL this game could be.

In short I am warming up to the new game as I get it into my head that this is not CMx1 anymoreo. It is probably more a competitor for something like OFP. But I am waiting for more info to get a sense of the game.

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Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Steve did say that it would be a NATO-backed UN force invading. I'd be willing to bet that at least the Brits and (cross my fingers) France and Germany would make it in there.

I think a EuroCorps module with French, German, British, Polish and Dutch forces would be awesome.

Steve said that US Marines will be a highly likely addition. Maybe after that the following module would be US Airborne forces tongue.gif
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Originally posted by juan_gigante:

RSColonel_131st - There will be modules for other nations, we've been told. So I guess you could wait for those. And I think the point is that the environment you are in and the tools you are given (in the campaign, that is) keep it from being a one-sided battle. As other people have said, in the other CM games people do Stuarts vs. Panthers, and despite the technological difference, that can still be a fun battle, if the scenario designer makes it so.

If they do other modules, I may buy. Just not the start package, not likely.

Asymetric warfare requires asymetric victory conditions IMHO. For the Syrians, if they could cause a certain minimum of casualitys, it becomes a poltical victory. But they can't play "defend the flag" and fight for territory.

Originally posted by juan_gigante:

One thing I don't get is Europeans not wanting to play as Americans. In the CMx1 games, many people played nationalities other than their own. I'm American, and I play German almost exclusively. In CMBB, all of us Western Europeaners and Americans didn't even have the option of playing our "home side". So, now that it is a new engine we MUST HAVE OUR NATIVE LAND!!!

Belive it or not, this is something fairly new to me too. I spent years flying F-15's or playing/commanding US Land Forces without a problem.

But I guess this is a sad side-effect of the current political climate between the US and EU. I'm not immune to that. To take it from the other side, if you gave americans the only option to play as french forces in a new computer game, how bad would the game sell? And I'm not after blaming anyone here, pointing fingers or heaping guilt onto anyone nation - that's just the way things went the last few years.

As both "continents" become a bit more "disconnected", and as europe's military power grows, many Euros just aren't interesting in "pretending to be US" in computer games. We now have our own cool toys to play with. A good Euro-Brigade Module would do wonders here.

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We now have our own cool toys to play with. A good Euro-Brigade Module would do wonders here
Good idea...now if the Euros go in and take out Iran so they don't give nukes to Islamic Jihad and the like, BFC would just have to make it a game. ;)

BDH

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Originally posted by juan_gigante:

One thing I don't get is Europeans not wanting to play as Americans. In the CMx1 games, many people played nationalities other than their own. I'm American, and I play German almost exclusively. In CMBB, all of us Western Europeaners and Americans didn't even have the option of playing our "home side". So, now that it is a new engine we MUST HAVE OUR NATIVE LAND!!! Come on! BFC said long ago that initial modules for pretty much every setting would have Americans to start. Don't we remember all those brainstorms about the Normandy game? US vs. Germans to start, then Commonwealth, then deeper into France, so on and so forth. I kind of assumed that non-Americans

1. Didn't mind playing nationalities other than their own

2. Had steeled themselves for the very likely occurance that their country would not be in the initial release.

Doesn't this make sense?

I rarely agree with RS about anything but to be fair I don't think this is what he was saying at all. He used the phrase
Again, I don't like being forced to play as American Soldiers in these games.
To me that means that he doesn't mind playing U.S. (or non- whatever his favorite is) occasionally, but isn't interested in being limited to U.S.-only for the good guys. I feel the exact same way about CM:BB. I prefer playing as the Americans or CW. That doesn't mean that I don't play the Axis powers in BO or AK, but it does mean that I hardly ever played BB.

-dale

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For the record: I've played some quick-battles from the russian side against a friend of mine in CMBB, and that was kind of difficult after two years of constantly shooting at them (IL-2, Forgotten Battles and CMBB).

But I did it. Yet I wouldn't have bought CMBB if my only choice would have been the russkys.

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Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Steve did say that it would be a NATO-backed UN force invading. I'd be willing to bet that at least the Brits and (cross my fingers) France and Germany would make it in there.

I think a EuroCorps module with French, German, British, Polish and Dutch forces would be awesome.

Steve said that US Marines will be a highly likely addition. Maybe after that the following module would be US Airborne forces tongue.gif </font>
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Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Steve did say that it would be a NATO-backed UN force invading. I'd be willing to bet that at least the Brits and (cross my fingers) France and Germany would make it in there.

I think a EuroCorps module with French, German, British, Polish and Dutch forces would be awesome.

Steve said that US Marines will be a highly likely addition. Maybe after that the following module would be US Airborne forces tongue.gif </font>
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Gotta side with "disappointed."

Psychologically, it seems too close to the current, highly questionable conflict in Iraq to be fun. That's all I'm gonna say about that, there are pundits on either side of that debate.

Tactically, I can only imagine that you'll be modelling civies amongest the insurgents, which is the only reason I wouldn't rain down "death from above" in every senario... 'cept if you don't give me those tools to work with, which then questions the simulation's realism.

Creatively, as someone who works in a creative industry, I completely understand your desire to step away from tired material. Have fun in this new endeavor, and yes, it'll work out the bugs for the WWII release (as well as other modules.)

Steve - Do what ya gotta do. You'll lose some long time fans, but gain boatloads of others. Like so many others, I wish you (and your excellent team) the best of luck, and look forward to the 5th installment with great anticipation.

Hpt. Lisse

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Feck. Missiles? Abram tanks? Smart bombs? Wha's tha skill? "Lock, Shoot, Go Broncos!!" Didnae tha' tank commander ain Desert Storm sae, "The first clue they had that we were there was when their tanks started exploding!".

Ah'll gi' BFC tha benefit o' tha doubt an' try tha demo, boot at's noo WWII ETO. Ah didnae gi' a toss aboot defeatin' tha Arabs, or drivin' a APC past a roadside bomb.

Will there bae bulldozers sae Ah kin bury tha bastarrds ain their trainches?

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Originally posted by Dillweed:

Quit yer bitchin, its gonna be good.

Think of it this way, CMx1 was good becasue of Steve and the rest of the BFC team. Not beacsue of the setting.

There have been a whole lot of bad WW2 games, but BFC made a good one.

I imagine there talents do not only cover simulating combat ranging from 41-45. Just remember who we are talking about here. They have proved themselves very compatent in the past. I will assume they still are unless given CONCRETE (ie a bad game on my hard drive) evidence indicating otherwise.

It could be the best game anyone ever creates, but if I don't care about the setting, it means nothing to me.
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What disapoints me is all the whiney MFer who bitched and bitched for info/screens and now bitch and bitch about the timeframe and nations involved. Get over it. Its going to be f*cking good and even if it isn't complaining and hurling thinly veiled insults at the creators really isn't going to make them give up the work they've spent the last 2 years of thier lives on. Its a change of pace, and with seemingly good reason.

All that being said I think we all need to come together here and be happy. Its a new CM game for God's sake! I think if you are intrested enough to be here you should at least give the demo a shot. If you don't care for it, don't buy it. Just look at it as a good way for BFC to iron out the bugs before the ETO game. Plus game #2 will actually have more features (I actually would have preferred that CMSF be 2nd, but I ain't complaining) In the end I realize this is a wargamer forum, none of us are strangers to conflict. I believe my final thoughts are spelled out in my name sig.

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Being a disappointed gamer who is currently sobbing in his tea LOL.. It seems to me BFC is biting the hand that feeds. The core client base of BFC is WW2 fans who bought the CMBO CMBB CMAK. While I can appreciate that the dev team might get tired of WW2 it still is what drives these forums and sales.

Automatic sales of a new improved CMx2 WW2 based (well near automatic sales)are assured as it is the era we game. It seems to me by having SF modern based, a non-historical campaign it will/would cut into the sales quite substantially from the BFC's built in WW2 client base. The module based system seems sound but I envsioned teams interested in other eras doing their thing with CMx2 all the while we/I would be enjoying my bread and butter WW2 based CMx2. Playing The Water Rats Canadians in the Scheldt or Monty's Mountain Goats The Canadians in Italy. hehe. To dream.

[ October 08, 2005, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Waycool ]

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Originally posted by OGSF:

Feck. Missiles? Abram tanks? Smart bombs? Wha's tha skill? "Lock, Shoot, Go Broncos!!" Didnae tha' tank commander ain Desert Storm sae, "The first clue they had that we were there was when their tanks started exploding!".

Ah'll gi' BFC tha benefit o' tha doubt an' try tha demo, boot at's noo WWII ETO. Ah didnae gi' a toss aboot defeatin' tha Arabs, or drivin' a APC past a roadside bomb.

Will there bae bulldozers sae Ah kin bury tha bastarrds ain their trainches?

I think I agree with you.

FYI:

Generally we speak (type?) English here.

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Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

I'm glad that WWII will be the follow up title to take advantage of what BFC learns with the first title. They have said many times that several of the cool features we want will make it in to CMx2, but not for the first game. I see the WWII game as taking advantage of a more fully developed version of the CMx2 engine. It's really what I had hoped for all along.

I completely agree. This is what I was going to say, but you said it first. smile.gif
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Originally posted by Dillweed:

What disapoints me is all the whiney MFer who bitched and bitched for info/screens and now bitch and bitch about the timeframe and nations involved. Get over it.

Maybe, just maybe, you could just take the chill pill and shut up. If people are whining, well, get over it. It's not like your bickering and abuse is needed by anyone, the least by BFC.
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