1.04 Gameplay/Bug Feedback

[Peter Panzer]

List Updated: 10.07.07

v. 1.04

WEGO/Hotseat

CPU: e6850

GPU: 8800 GTX (162.18 driver)

OS: Win XP (dualcore hotfix applied)

Briefly, this game is now at a point where it is showing promise, however it is still somewhat rough in my estimation. I have listed some oddities I noticed during a recent scenario below. I have also added a few, hopefully modest, requests. I hope this helps and some or all of these issues can be addressed in 1.05.

Context:

Small unit action depicting a single platoon of U.S. Armored Cav M3’s (reinforced) versus a company size unit of experienced UNCON forces. The scenario revolved around a Syrian anti-armor ambush in sparsely populated, ravine-crossed terrain.

Infantry:

Infantry movement requires further refining and added precision. Units interpret their issued movement paths too liberally on occasion. This creates tactical disadvantages such as exposure to enemy fire, bypassing cover and overshooting the assigned waypoint.

Individual soldiers will sometimes disappear and reappear in a new location when executing a movement command. This “teleport” effect is most pronounced during the replay of a WEGO turn and is not a result of the “fog of war.” Units will also sometimes slide across the ground without the run/walk animation when boarding vehicles during a replay.

On three occasions, UNCON units abandoned defilade positions, crested a ravine and ran directly into the guns of enemy units when friendly squads in their proximity where taken under fire. These “regular” squads were in command, had not been issued movement orders and were displaying “cautious” morale.

The “face” command, when issued without a movement command, is carried out inconsistently. Two “regular” UNCON teams, neither targeting an enemy unit or in a state of distress, addressed this command differently – one executing and the other not. I cannot see any scenario related reason for the discrepancy.

Visuals:

Vehicle models will sometimes rapidly pivot along their center axis when traversing an incline. It seems as if the game cannot decide the proper angle to display the model in relation to the ground.

Vehicle crew model’s feet protrude from the bottom of M1114 models.

Rocket fins protrude from the side of the RPG-7 model

Prone soldiers will sometimes perform an odd, horizontal spinning motion when orienting themselves to a different facing

One M3’s chain gun often pointed at the ground at a steep angle despite no enemy units at such close range. The gun would correct its angle when firing at distant targets, but would return to the downward angle after doing so.

Technical Data:

Small IED (122mm artillery round?) seems underpowered in relation to armored targets. One M3 survived two close range detonations with only light track damage.

Requests:

Allow a "face" command to be added to a movement command/waypoint issued to dismounting troops

Allow cover arcs to extend off of the map. At present, map corners cannot be covered by units at certain angles in relation to a corner.

Inform the player of the total “pause” delay in the UI

Clarify when orders such as “Open Up” or “Hide” have been issued in the UI. Currently, the only indication seems to be a very slight color change of the button.

Visually highlight IED’s assigned to a given trigger man when he is selected. Alternatively, add them to the “formation” tab. These are nearly impossible to find on a map as is.

[ October 07, 2007, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Peter Panzer ]

[satan]

Hi Peter, on the bugs

A/ Still have troops that dont dismount form stryker and or get stuck. Renders the stryker useless for the whole game.

B/Had an uncoventional tank hunter team ( AT type launcher cant remember model ) launcher disappear and reappear at it original start position on the map but the team animation kept firing as the launcher was at the new location and launched missiles whilst the launcher graphic sat at the back of the map...

just 2 bugs ive found ( One old one new ?)

[SlowMotion]

Originally posted by Peter Panzer:

Requests:

Ability to issue the “face” command without having to issue a movement command

It's already possible, but not if your unit has targeted some enemy unit. I think it would be useful to be able to change tank's hull direction even in this situation. Sometimes the gun may point at correct direction, but hull to some very bad direction as a result of executing movement commands while target line is on.

Visually highlight IED’s assigned to a given trigger man when he is selected. Alternatively, add them to the “formation” tab. These are nearly impossible to find on a map as is.

Something like this could also help making sure you don't position IEDs too far from the triggerman. Easily happens at least when using Wire type IEDs.

[Mr Byte]

I still find vehicles not reacting to being hit by RPGs, they don't pop smoke or move just sit there while they are hit again and again until the're destroyed.

[Pandur]

I still find vehicles not reacting to being hit by RPGs, they don't pop smoke or move just sit there while they are hit again and again until the're destroyed.

i allready "tried" to bite my ass, as my US vehicles totaly smoked positions becouse of some lousy theat they saw somewhere...

also this "less than optimal" auto rotate isnt needed in my taste.

and, i dont need vehicles abandoming their position i have coosen for them becouse someone shoots at them, i mean thats why i placed em there, they should shoot back and destroy whatever is shooting at them.

if you want a shoot and scoot behaviour, than do it with waypoints. nothing easier than that.

[Peter Panzer]

Satan:

I too would very much like to see these types of errors cleaned up. Of course, where such fixes fall on the list of priorities is the question.

Slow Motion:

Thank you for the tip – I revisited this one.

Better stated, it seems the “face” command, when issued without a movement command, is carried out inconsistently. Two “regular” UNCON teams, neither targeting an enemy unit or in a state of distress, addressed this command differently – one executing and the other not. I cannot see any scenario related reason for the discrepancy.

Mr Byte and Pandur:

No doubt, the TACAI, in terms of self preservation, has room for improvement in both the infantry (see my example above) and vehicle models. This, along with improved infantry pathing, would go a long way toward honing gameplay.

Again, this game seems poised on the edge of becoming quite enjoyable, but these types of issues need to be resolved in order to make the leap from “good to great.” I admire an ambitious operation like BFC. Paradoxically, I think they were victims of their own good reputation with this release. They now have the opportunity to continue to assert their finest qualities and demonstrate that CMSF can be a solid title.

Thanks to each of you for contributing to the list.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Tactical precision… that is what made CMX1 so great and will CMX2 when fully de-bugged. Units need to do as they would if order so to do by a squad leader… maybe a bit better than that .

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Pandur]

a behaviour wich is introduced with 1.04 is that units try to shoot on other units but cant out of some reason and are stuck in a spotting/aiming loop where they constantly rais and lower their gun. with vehicles the output shows spotting/elevating.

often these enemy units are prefectly visible but the friedly unit does nothing but rais and lower the weapons.

that wasnt pre 1.04 and i guess somehow its a unnice "shooting through terrain" reduce methode.

it looks like we can still "see" through terrain but sometimes not "shoot" through it. it leaves units with a bad taste of poor performance even if its not their fault so to say.

has anyone else observed that!?

[SlowMotion]

I've also seen this loop. In the case I saw it went Spotting/Aiming. The enemy they were trying to shoot was just barely outside LOS in a dried river. The LOS was cut by about 20m of ground.

Interestingly another unit hiding behind this river bank COULD shoot through similar amount of ground.

In this screen shot the loop unit was a red infantry unit on one of those building roofs. The unit shooting through the ground was this US unit.

[ October 07, 2007, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: SlowMotion ]

[Michael Withstand]

Well I have a suggestion

Modern tank turrets are stabilized in two axis. That means that whatever the hull is facing r when moving and rotating the gun will always point to the target(though there's limit to the stabilization angles). I noticed that none of the Syrian T72 tanks are modeled with stabilization capability in game.

Second pathfinding still needs some improvement especially in tight urban area where the road is somewhat blocked by other vehicles.

Just my 2 cents

[Michael Withstand]

T-55 are stabilised in one axis(elevation only instead of traverse and elevation)) as far as I know

[Pandur]

@SlowMotion

exactly this is what i mean, it got a total pain by now for me. i just played the kurds attack! scenario, guess how often the MG´s waxed one of my tecnical through solid ground, while mine technical also saw through the solid ground but didnt shoot back.

it seems like one get punished when you try to position your guys in a exact way so they arent unessesary exposed.

[molotov_billy]

Originally posted by Pandur:

a behaviour wich is introduced with 1.04 is that units try to shoot on other units but cant out of some reason and are stuck in a spotting/aiming loop where they constantly rais and lower their gun. with vehicles the output shows spotting/elevating.

often these enemy units are prefectly visible but the friedly unit does nothing but rais and lower the weapons.

that wasnt pre 1.04 and i guess somehow its a unnice "shooting through terrain" reduce methode.

it looks like we can still "see" through terrain but sometimes not "shoot" through it. it leaves units with a bad taste of poor performance even if its not their fault so to say.

has anyone else observed that!?

Yes, happens very often in urban areas. I'm never sure when and where my guys will be able to shoot, and when and where enemy units can shoot/see me.

[Peter Panzer]

...good points being made here.

Kip:

Tactical precision…

Absolutely, to the greatest extent the developers can refine it and to the degree it is realistic within the sweep of a given scenario.

Pandur, Slow Motion:

I have seen this happen as well, good catch.

Correction:

One M3 commander was displayed with an infantry model rather than the correct vehicle crew version

This is not an oversight, rather it appear's to simulate the Scout Team Leader assuming a position in the M3 turret. The M3 platoon CO is depicted correctly. A nice touch, frankly.

Said Scout Team Leader dismounting from the top hatch seems odd.

[Michael Withstand]

Oh yea tanks should be able to demolish walls and even buildings by going past it. It's kind of funny when tanks have to create a breach on the perimeter wall by firing their main gun before proceeding.

[ October 08, 2007, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Michael Withstand ]

[Oddball_E8]

well tanks dont usually drive through buildings, but sure, low walls could be traversed in an emergency..

believe it or not even modern tanks get de-tracked very easily by behaviour like this (and to drive through high walls or buildings you'd have to rotate the barrel to the rear wich isnt very good tactics so that wont be done... ever basically)

a friend of mine served as a driver in the swedish military and he was not happy every time they had to drive through a forest since he had thrown a track there more than once by just driving over old cobbled walls (theres alot of them strewn about in this area)

[SlowMotion]

So maybe those low walls could be driven through, but there would be a risk of getting immobilized?

I think railroads were like this in CMx1.

[M1A1TC]

Originally posted by Pandur:

a behaviour wich is introduced with 1.04 is that units try to shoot on other units but cant out of some reason and are stuck in a spotting/aiming loop where they constantly rais and lower their gun. with vehicles the output shows spotting/elevating.

often these enemy units are prefectly visible but the friedly unit does nothing but rais and lower the weapons.

that wasnt pre 1.04 and i guess somehow its a unnice "shooting through terrain" reduce methode.

it looks like we can still "see" through terrain but sometimes not "shoot" through it. it leaves units with a bad taste of poor performance even if its not their fault so to say.

has anyone else observed that!?

I have seen this a lot, both with infantry and vehicles.

[Brent Pollock]

I've searched this topic to no avail, so I'll add this in.

I have yet to see any of my units execute a "PAUSE" special order since version 1. I am referring to the order discussed on p.66 of the manual. I generally issue this order if I want a unit to wait for smoke to develop or blast a target for a bit before moving on. Without fail, the unit does not pause at all but simply executes the order.

Am I not issuing the pause order in the correct sequence? IIRC, I have tried setting the PAUSE time before issuing other orders, and also tried doing it after setting the other orders.

Nothing in the manual says this order should not work during turn-based play.

[Huntarr]

What order are you trying to execute?

The following threads may help your problem....

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=71;t=000147

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=71;t=000141