hellfish Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Well... I don't know if it was a failure of hardware. And I don't know if I'd compare the Chechens, who were essentially comrades of their enemies in the Russian or Soviet Army a year or two earlier, in the same class as any Iraqis. I think the Chechens had a good idea of what the Russians were going to do and prepared an intelligent defense against it. The Iraqis did not. I think it's that simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Well, that and the fact that the Russians didn't know what they were doing Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Well, that and the fact that the Russians didn't know what they were doing Steve They were probably destroyed while firing at the upper stories of buildings when relatively close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Another very cool Russian AFV vid, this on T-90/Shtora/Arena: http://rapidshare.de/files/10889098/VD.N18.e02.avi.html Sorry, I still haven't learned Russian yet to translate, but I did understand "Americanski Abrams." [ January 12, 2006, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: akd ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Steve, Am glad you found the article I remembered. Hope it was useful. Would you mind listing the title, author, etc. for the article? Be sure to check the MOUT resource link I gave. Phenomenal! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 before jumping to conclusions regarding Russian MOUT tactics it should be taken notice that the mechanized unit that got slaughtered in Grozny thought that paratroopers had secured their route as was planned. what they didn't know was that the commander of the paratroopers had refused to attack Grozny and thus paratroopers hadn't secured the route and the whole plan fell to pieces. BTW Brits tested Soviet MOUT tactics in 1980ies and found them to be more efficient than Western ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 URC, There are a number of very well researched articles on the reasons for the failures of the initial conflict in Chechnya and still more that compare it to the later conflict, where the Russians were quite successful. Horrible leadership, terrible morale, almost no planning, badly executed tactics (i.e. almost no combined arms), etc., etc., etc caused the initial slaughter. That and the fact the Chechins had almost 2 years to prepare for the Russians, knew exactly what to expect, and therefore were extremely well positioned to exploit any mistakes the Russians made. Since they made a ton of mistakes, they suffered horribly. Having good tactics on paper doesn't mean squat when they aren't executed properly in the field. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Steve, Top amonst them must be the quality and moral of the russian troops. I am struck but how easily the US has adapted to Afghanistan, compared to the way the Soviet union struggled. True it's too different wars and it makes a big difference replacing a hated regeme with freedom, as opposed to imposing a hated one by force, but I can't help thinking that it shows the 70-80's Soviet army for the paper tiger it had become. That's one of the reasons ( apart from it never happend) that I am quite cold on a "Cold War" CM game, I think the Redc Army just couldn't have pulled it off. On the other hand it makes you shiver to think what would be happening today if all the Iraqi's had loved there government. Peter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 The interesting thing about Chechnya and Afghanistan is how the experts point out that many of the successful things the Soviet Union did in Afghanistan, early and later through hard lessons, were totally and utterly not taken into account for Chechnya. One reason why the US has adapted to Afghanistan, and even Iraq, as well as it has is because of its sense of history. Granted it went into both wars with its fair share of systemic and cultural blindsides, but overall commanders were acutely aware of what an insurgent force could do to them if they didn't adapt. One can certainly argue that the adaptation should have been done earlier and quicker than has been the case, but clearly lessons learned are being acted upon. Heck, even the political leadership in the US is apparently learning from its mistakes. And that is something I didn't expect! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.