Peter Cairns Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Came across a report in the UK press from 2004, (Telegraph sept 19th) stating that by 2005 the US might be deploying "microwave" weapons for crowd control in Iraq. I know these have been tested on helicopters, but are they now on ground vehicles and have they been used, and if so might they appear in CM:SF. I know so far that they have been limited to "non lethal" versions, but at what point can we expect to see ones with more power. One of the issues with them, is that they can kill people with pace makers etc, and can apparently affect contact lenses. They also heat up metal, with claims of injuries to people wearing glasses or watches, so what might they do to someone holding an AK, or indeed the ammunition in it. Also does anyone know the what if any penetration they have or effect on vehicle electronics etc. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasMask Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hmmm. Strange. I heard of some testing on these microwave weapons. The non lethal I believe is just suppose to make you so hot you are unconfortable. I highly doubt the U.S. or any force in the U.N. would ever use microwave technology as a weapon because that would be very inhumane. The idea of melting one's organs from the inside out is a bit harsh. Also, I don't think a non lethal micro wave version would be affective in Iraq, because when I was there I saw Iraqis wearing coats in 80 degree weather, and it ranges from 120 to 145 degrees in the hot season. I was roasting, but the Iraqis are used to it, so I think if you make them hotter they'll just put on some lotion and laugh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronic Max Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 They also heat up metal, with claims of injuries to people wearing glasses or watches, so what might they do to someone holding an AK, or indeed the ammunition in it. That's an interesting point about cooking off the ammo in the AKs. I wonder how long it takes to heat metal to the point where ammo explosions would be a problem. I further wonder whether such heating might ever have a role in a more conventional conflict. Anyone have any links to reading about the potential employment of zee microwave weapons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasMask Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 This seems very far fetched at the least. Japan was trying to develop a "death ray" back durring WWII, but was not successful. The ammount of energy to it would take to run such a weapon would require something very large, plus you'd need a large head or something to focus it through; it would get torn up fast. I don't think we have the technology do have weaponry that fast, but I havn't read much on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Gasmask. New scientist report from sept 22nd 2005 on the "sheriff" microwave weapon, which they put at iraq 2006. New Scientist Sept 2005. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 That's an interesting point about cooking off the ammo in the AKs. I wonder how long it takes to heat metal to the point where ammo explosions would be a problem...Pretty high, and surely higher than the temp at which a normal person would drop a hot object. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronic Max Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Certainly. How long would it take to cook off an AFV's ammo? 'course, an ATGM would be infinitely more reliable and effective, so barring revolutionary advances in point-defense for AFVs, I don't suppose there's any compelling reason to bother exploring that avenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Dirtweasle,The metal would heat up far faster than any plastic or wood, ( I've never put wood in a microwave so I don't know what happens, though it will melt plastic eventually). As to cooking internal organs, things only heat from the inside out in microwaves becuase they are deflected by the sides of the oven and as such more go through the centre of the oven than anywhere else, so that is where the greatest heat effect takes place, as opposed to the corners. A directed beam would heat skin first and only penetrate so far, thats why it would probably have no real effect against armour or buildings. ( though I am not sure to be honest). If it could be made to adversely effect electronics etc, it might be the basis for a defensive system for the likes of tanks. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Is no-one concerned how this is going to go down in the rest of the world, particularly the Arab word. I can guarantee that the first time such a device is used in Iraq or Afghanistan, there will be an international outcry, regardless of how theoretically safe they may be. Technology is not the answer to these issues if you ask me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Being from Boston, I'm a bit leary of the term "non-lethal" weapons. During the World Series celebrations last year a local girl got killed by a pepper spray ball fired into the temple. During war protests in the U.S. protesters have regularly been badly injured by shots to the head by weapons that were designed to be aimed at the torso and legs. At least in Boston we've been taught the term 'LESS-lethal', as opposed to 'non-lethal' when talking about crowd control weapons. I recall the army was testing some sticky expanding goo to spray on protesters in order to incapacitate them. I can imagine what would happen if a 105 pound vegitarian girl went face-down into that stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasMask Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 "Technology is not the answer to these issues if you ask me." I agree. Microwave rays and sticky goo isn't going to stop IEDs, ambushes, and mortar attacks. Non-lethal weapons will affect nothing in Iraq. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 I never said it was a good idea, I just asked if anyone knew the current satus of the project and where it was going..... Even if it was ready and deployable I wouldn't use it in Iraq either as I think it would create just the backlash mentioned. But they do seem to be at least considering using it. In addition if it is near deployment as a "Less Lethal" weapon, I can't imagine they haven't at least considered if not tested it at higher power. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Peter Cairns, From what I've read of it, the Area Denial System (believe I have that right) works by attacking the nerve endings just below the skin. The idea is that in order to make the pain stop, people will leave the area where the ADS is being used. Since the signal strength attenuates as 1/R squared, where R = range, the more separation people have from the ADS transmitter and the faster, the happier they'll be. The ADS is NOT the same as a high power microwave weapon (HPM). GasMask, The "Death Ray" the Japanese were working on, according to a "Weird Axis Weapon" show I saw on the History Channel, didn't go operational but was successfully tested on target animals, "monkeys" (elsewhere a code phrase to hide human tests) and vehicles (probably trucks). Per the program, this massive effort to use radar as a kill mechanism almost totally hamstrung Japanese development and use of radar for air defense applications. The plan was to use Death Ray installations to cover the landing beaches of Kyushu. Would've been nasty, for at levels way below near instant death, people would've gone blind en masse, the eyeball being mostly water, hence highly sensitive to microwave irradiation. Doesn't work when cooked! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 John, I am not clear on what you are saying about the difference between the ADS or HPM, are you saying that "Sheriff" operates more as a "field" effecting an area as opposed to a directional beam..... I'd have though if this thing is all but ready for deployment we would know a lot more about it by now, I haven't even seen a picture of it. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Peter Cairns, Judging from the referenced link, the ADS is directional enough to single out one person, as in a riot ringleader, but the power level, assuming none of the conditions prevented in the test obtains, is designed to cause pain, not cook a person. Those items controlled for, though, make this device very iffy in my mind. "Attention, rioters! If you wish to riot in front of our embassy , please sure that you don't have any of the following items on your person (insert list). Also, be sure to remove all glasses and contact lenses. We apologize for any inconvenience to your rioting pleasure. Oops! Almost forgot to mention that you need to sign a millimeter wave radiation exposure waiver first. It's only an 2.54 cm. thick, so shouldn't take too long." Fundamentally, it comes down to ERP (effective radiated power, which is = transmitter power + antenna gain - coupling losses), and target dwell time (how long the beam is on the victim). It doesn't take huge transmitter power, either, to generate high ERP, for the antenna has a considerable part to play in the equation. Reasonable transmitter power can become destructive when coupled with a high gain (very directional antenna), kind of like the difference between a flashlight adjusted from wide beam down to tightest focus. In radar as in light, the more focused the beam, the more power delivered per unit area. The difference between this thing and a true HPM weapon is orders of magnitude in ERP. At least as far back as the 1960s microwave radar jammers were flying with ERPs in the megawatt range and even 100+ miles out, were a serious threat to unhardened electronics. Since then, the numbers have skyrocketed. In a typical U.S. aircraft carrier battle group, there are so many radars going, so close and at such high power levels, that naval aircraft and ordnance have to have special electronic protection built into them, lest their electronics fry. By contrast, a modern microwave oven typically puts out 1000 watts or less. And we all know about not drying small pets in the microwave, don't we? Since the ADS, based on what I've seen at least, fits on a modified Hummvee, its onboard generator can't be putting out more than a few KW, automatically limiting what it can do and how far, but it does get a lot of leverage from the phased array antenna, for those things put out pencil beams, thus, concentrated radar energy and can scan rapidly back and forth. Even so, I'd expect a usable range of a few blocks or so, not multiple kilometers for a true electronics frying, brain cooking, heart stopping HPM. Hope this helps. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Günzel for Kanzler Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Be assured that these "harmless" claimed weapons for "good use" can be set up for killing, torturing, destroying of brains, tissue, organs, becoming handicapped etc. And if not with these they show today, they have "bigger brother" versions in stock they just don't dare to use. Yet. Alex Jones, doesn't matter wether one likes him or not, has some nice videos in stock, of urban terror training sessions against ordinary (degenerated) people in the USA. It's all for good, you know. Have a look at what Tom Bearden, Len Horowitz, Nick Begich and the likes have to say about secret and half-secret technologies and applications. To sum it up shortly, there is way more technologies in stock than what you believe to be in existence. Science fiction is real. But there is rather Satan than trustworthy people in control of all these new technologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtz Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Does a tinfoil hat protect against microwave weapons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 well, duh, of course it does, unless you have had radioactive waste spread on it by mindless automatons like myself. Here, let me rise from my chair made from Arabic childrens skulls to show you how we do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseJedi Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Originally posted by Günzel for Kanzler: Be assured that these "harmless" claimed weapons for "good use" can be set up for killing, torturing, destroying of brains, tissue, organs, becoming handicapped etc. And if not with these they show today, they have "bigger brother" versions in stock they just don't dare to use. Yet. Alex Jones, doesn't matter wether one likes him or not, has some nice videos in stock, of urban terror training sessions against ordinary (degenerated) people in the USA. It's all for good, you know. Have a look at what Tom Bearden, Len Horowitz, Nick Begich and the likes have to say about secret and half-secret technologies and applications. To sum it up shortly, there is way more technologies in stock than what you believe to be in existence. Science fiction is real. But there is rather Satan than trustworthy people in control of all these new technologies. Well you have to admit there are a few things correct in this post. I know this might get me the reputation of a nutter but I too can confirm some of this. Extensive research carried out yesterday - a coincidence as I did not know this topic would be brought up here. While in Borders I found a whole section of Science Fiction books. I can confirm that Science Fiction is real. Any time I run with a riotous mob I am going to bring along a light bulb sitting in a glass of water. The second that thing starts to flicker I'm outta there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Grunt Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I wonder if the system has a "regular or extra-crispy" setting? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by LtCol West: I wonder if the system has a "regular or extra-crispy" setting? LOL, good one! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan_gigante Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by LtCol West: I wonder if the system has a "regular or extra-crispy" setting? After action reports show that "Popcorn" proved to be the most useful setting, narrowly edging out "Sensor Reheat". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeknodathon Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by LtCol West: I wonder if the system has a "regular or extra-crispy" setting? Or pings at the end? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by Günzel for Kanzler: Be assured that these "harmless" claimed weapons for "good use" can be set up for killing, torturing, destroying of brains, tissue, organs, becoming handicapped etc. ... Just like a baseball bat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ng cavscout Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 When torturing Arabic children I prefer to use a Black and Decker cordless drill. It is quiet, so you can savor the screams, and it is made in America so we can perpetuate our capitalistic domination of all people of color. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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