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Dillweed
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Well, it's a legitimate issue. Honestly, Israel has enough of a conventional army and enough foreign support that it no longer needs nukes to defend itself. But supporting the Israeli government in clearly breaking international law that we are holding nearby nations to is hypocritical and unfair at face value.

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Originally posted by Stirling:

Israel is one tiny little area massively outnumbered by enemies who swear to destroy it every day, and they don't need nukes?

What utter, short-sighted idiocy!

Following your logic Iran needs nukes too as the US has military bases all around her and they swear to destroy it every day.
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Here we go again, yet more people that are incapable of making even the most

painfully obvious moral distinctions between peaceful countries and terrorist-supporting

nations run by known psychos (Iran being an excellent example of such).

It's the same sort of people that put Libya on the UN human rights commission

because it was "their turn". Because the idiots that run the UN put all

countries on the same moral plane, regardless of how the current dictator

of some 3rd world nation murdered his way to the top get in charge of that country,

or how that country abuses it's own people, or how that country treats

other nations. That organization is a corrupt sick joke. But it all stems

from the same utterly blind thinking that puts Israel or the U.S. in

same breath with a terrorist government run by the craziest muslim kooks

in the world like Iran. These countries are nothing alike, *that* is why

they are treated differently by sane people.

Iran is definitely going to be attacked, either by us or Israel, unless they

completely, and in a fully verifiable way, give up all their nuclear programs

very soon. There is no way in the world those lunatic ayatollahs can *ever* be

allowed to get a nuclear bomb.

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Absolutely, Iran should not have nuclear weapons. Neither should Israel. Think about it - Israel (especially with the foreign help it gets) can successfully repel any attack from the neighboring nations using it's conventional army. It has before, and it easily can again. So supporting a nation which is clearly and unnecessarily defying the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty which we hold so dear (and well we should) when it comes to Israel's neighbors is clearly unfair and hypocritical, and undermines much of our effort to seem like "good guys" to the Muslim world. To demand that Israel disarm its nuclear arsenal would not harm the security of Israel, and it would vastly, vastly improve our image in the Muslim community.

As an aside, some people forget that Israel was founded, in large part, because of the actions of Zionist terrorist groups like Irgun and the Stern Gang. Not to justify some of the horrible regimes of the Middle East, but just to remind people that no one's hands are clean of blood.

Irgun history

Lehi/Stern Gang history

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Originally posted by Lee:

Here we go again, yet more people that are incapable of making even the most

painfully obvious moral distinctions between peaceful countries and terrorist-supporting

Nobody with a brain of his own will call "peaceful nation" a country that killed millions of people in Vietnam, supported bloody dictatorships in latin america, mislead a whole country to support an illegal occupation and bombed lots of countries since WWII:

Congo, El salvador, grenada, Somalia, lebanon, cuba, korea, afhganistan etc etc etc....

Obviously I'm talking about Iran with all those crazy Ayatollahs that convince their poor ignorant citizens they are in danger of being invaded or nuke by this countries.

Not a good start, I must admit, in this forum.

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Originally posted by Lee:

Here we go again, yet more people that are incapable of making even the most

painfully obvious moral distinctions between peaceful countries and terrorist-supporting

nations run by known psychos (Iran being an excellent example of such).

Maybe the distinction between 'peaceful countries' and 'terrorist-supporting nations' is not so clear, don't you think?
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Regarding EU nuclear disarmament (i.e. Britain and France).

Anyone who has watched the TV programmes "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" knows this is an impossible dream. Sir Humphrey Appleby the Cabinet Secretary so succinctly puts it, "Britain maintains a nuclear deterrent to deter one country - France."

QED Britain will never disarm...

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Originally posted by luderbamsen:

I think the time has come for admins to padlock this forum. An perhaps a friendly tap on the shoulders of certain posters as well.

Oh, and Hi Mom.

I agree. This thread is so discriminating! "Hi mom" indeed! Doesn't anyone give a **** about poor 'ol dad anymore? Bah!

Hi parental person(s)!

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Originally posted by knalla:

If the US is so concern about nuclear weapons in the region they should attack Israel then.

besides the fact that Israel is the only country that (supposedly) hasnt harbored any anti-american terrorist cells, Israel is also a nice little base of operations for any US forces that might plan to attack a middle Eastern country out of it... I have a feeling Bush might have ANOTHER bright idea... :(

Im pretty sure that nowadays nukes arent for strategic advantage, but more so political. The fact that Israel has nukes keeps its many enemies

from attacking. But its true, if muslim nations saw the US asserting itself against Israel for their sake, then it probably will get us some more popularity points with them. :cool:

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Well, I was gonna stay out of this, but...

If I were president in 2002 and wanted peace in the ME I would have knocked over saudi arabia and isreal. The saudi's issues have been well documented.

Anyone that says Isreal hasn't done some very questionable things with the Palasinians needs to start reading the news. I'm not saying they are in the wrong morally. I think they are about equal now. Unfourtunetly, being a nation state I really think they need to hold themselves to a higher standard than a group of admitted terrorist thugs.

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Israel needs nukes for the same reason we did during the cold war----as a deterrent to a biological, chemical nuclear attack by one of the enemies that surround it--enemies who would prefer that it did not exist. Of course a nuclear deterrent is no deteerent at all against terrorists.

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Originally posted by GreenBlade:

Israel needs nukes for the same reason we did during the cold war----as a deterrent to a biological, chemical nuclear attack by one of the enemies that surround it--enemies who would prefer that it did not exist.

Yes, because if Egypt used its massive nuclear arsenal against Israel and Israel had nukes, nothing could stop them! Oh wait - none of Israel's nearby enemies have NBC weapons! Oh wait - if they did, the rest of the Western world would rip them a new asshole the size of Alska! Oh wait - even if they did use NBC weapons, the massive reprisal from Israel's allies, it'd make Alaska look like Rhode Island! Oh wait - Israel's clear conventional weapons supremacy makes their nuclear arsenal completely unnecessary!! Oh wait - Israel is also in defiance of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty! Good thing we don't hold them to it the way we do Iran and company! I'm sure that doesn't look like (or is!) racism, injustice, or clear, unmitigated bias!

Please lock this thread, because I know I won't stop on my own.

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