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*MOD* Aussie Digger


M1A1TC

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There isn’t much point as a lot of our kit is different.

The individual rifle, the LAV (and its variants), the Bushmaster IMV, uniforms, PPE, etc.

Unless the ADF buys a version (like they did with CMAK) then I don’t think BTS / BFC will spend time ($) coding in our kit, our Orbats, etc.

And I don’t think the ADF will buy a copy while there is no support TCP/IP WEGO as that negates one of its possible major training benefits and we would only buy it as a training / simulation tool.

Now if all you want to do is take CM:SF and have US soldiers running around with US weapons but wearing AUSCAM coloured DPCU go ahead but as I said at the start there isn’t much point if you want an accurate simulation rather than a pretty game.

[ December 26, 2007, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: gibsonm ]

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Originally posted by SD Smack:

NICE DUDE!!!!!

thats awesome, now we really need the marine module so we can get some ASLAVs!!

Steve

Yeah great except no Australian line Infantryman uses that weapon, nor that webbing, nor wears that style of uniform - a minor point I know.

As for the ASLAV’s that will only give you Type 1 US LAV’s (which are different to our ASLAVs), not the Type 2’s (or are you going to paint red kangaroos on the side of Bradley’s and Strykers and just pretend)?

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The webbing color will be changed of course, and I will paint M-4 green to match a Steyr AUG.

I will also do the Kangaroos on Strykers and Abrams smile.gif

PS All the textures of the uniform and the vest are authenic Aussie army taken from photographs

20070807adf8094997_007.jpg

20070628adf8094997_021.jpg

[ December 26, 2007, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

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Originally posted by SD Smack:

yea they do use the Steyr AUG and we will need some meatier tires on the LAVs.....but until we can actually change the files i guess we will have to pretend smile.gif

steve

Our ASLAVs also have a different fire control system and a swag of other changes but don’t let reality get in the way.

Next you’ll be telling me that a Syrker is a good approximation of a Bushmaster ??!!

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For what its worth the picture above is of a Type 2 ASLAV (not a Bushmaster) and the two vehicle types have vastly different protection and performance (4 wheel Vs 8 wheel just for starters) between each other and when compared to a Stryker.

The USMC doesn’t field a vehicle like our Type 2 ASLAV so your mod wont help there even when the USMC module is published.

Even though the equipment is markedly different, I’m not so concerned about the looks as the underlying weapons effects and data is what make such mods problematic.

There is no point in a simulation using a Stryker as a Bushmaster (or a Type 2 ASLAV for that matter) as there wont be any simulation.

I’m all for “mods” that show the same vehicle but “moded” for winter cam or some such, but when a mod is trying to show a certain vehicle when in fact the computer is using the data from another, its value is very limited.

These “mods” are certainly only targeted at the “game” players in the audience.

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No you obviously don’t understand as that is not the point I’m trying to make.

No it doesn’t bug me that Australian equipment isn’t represented. When, pray tell, did I say that?

What does “bug me” is that people seem to think that if you put a DPCU uniform on a US soldier with US equipment that you suddenly have an Australian soldier or that if you paint a red kangaroo on the side of a US vehicle that is totally different to an Australian one, then you have an Australian one.

To use a CMX1 example, its like bringing out a “mod” for a King Tiger and say hey presto its now a T-34/76a. After all they are both tracked vehicles (just like an ASLAV and a Stryker are wheeled or a Bushmaster and a Stryker are wheeled).

Then these same people will say the “game sucks” because the “Australian” soldier or vehicle doesn’t perform the way they think it should.

[ December 26, 2007, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: gibsonm ]

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Jessus ****ing christ....

M1A1: Nice work! I like it! smile.gif

Gibson: WTF man???? You as a officer should know that you take what you got and work with it, and the fact that M1A1 who is an american takes the time and effort to skin an aussie skin to a US soldier should be a ...... honour for you!

I skin for the game Steelbeast (sure you have played the ANZAC version right?) and I do allot of Swedish and British skins on the vehicles we have in the game to get a more correct feeling when playing. I dont asume the vehicle will behave different when I gaved it a new camo, its just for me eyes to have something different to look at and something familiar for me.

Skinning isnt the easiest thing to do, and getting the motivation "your skin isnt wanted!" is the last motivation you need, constructive critics like "our Steyrs are green, not black, can you change the M4 colour atleast?" are betther if you want to nag nag nag...

A skin is made with love and the idea that its for anyone to use or not use after their own feelin (I dont ewen use a few of the skins ive done myself anymore) and its up to the players to decide wich skins they want, but just because they dont want a certain skin doesnt mean they start screaming about it like you do!

Remember, Skins is for the EYE, not performance of a certain unit.

IMO opinion you should start helping M1A1 getting it as correct as he could get it instead of just djumping at him!

/Chainsaw

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You are welcome to your opinion as am I.

I don’t have an issue with the uniform.

Its the idea that some guy wearing DPCU and carrying an M-4 getting out of a Bradley is somehow an accurate representation of an Australian soldier on operations.

I’m trying to get the ADF to at least look at buying this so that we can use it in training but for that to happen it needs to be an accurate simulation.

If the powers that be see this mod then the “accurate” and “simulation” tests are failed before we go anywhere.

I too use Steel Beasts Pro (I have the ANZAC version and a paid copy) and again make the comment that I’m sure there a skin depicting say a Leo 2A6 in winter cam instead of desert would be welcomed. However a Leo 2A6 “modded” and called a Merkava say wouldn’t.

To answer your final question I can’t “help him get it right” because the game doesn’t have the underlying data for the AUSTEYR (which is different to the original even if it was modelled), the ASLAV, the ASLAV2, the BUSHMASTER, our PPE, our load carrying gear, etc., etc. and without this it wont ever be “right” no matter how pretty it looks.

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IMO opinion you should start helping M1A1 getting it as correct as he could get it instead of just djumping at him!
In fairness, Gib's got point. I agree with him in the inherent futility of trying to mod something which is drastically different. This is why I do not, and never will, use your British Steel Beasts skins. If it floats your boat, fine, but there is more than a slight difference in the mechanics between Leo2A5 and Challenger 2 and as such can never represent the British Army, just the Danish/Swedish/Whatever army painted up funny. It should not be taken as any more than that.

This isn't helped by the OP's inability to distinguish an ASLAV from a Bushmaster. (Just to make Gib feel even more comfortable, I've never seen an Aussie vehicle in an American TCGST!), which is pretty much like not being able to distinguish between a Stryker and a HMMWV. You'll get as much similarity at this rate with real life as you would if you attempted to simulate a US Light Recon Squadron with 48 Strykers: The numbers of troops would be wrong, the equipment would be wrong, the capabilities would be wrong, and the tactics would be wrong. You don't have an LRS, you have a random accumulation of Strykers and troops who happen to wear the same uniform. Even the ASLAV-PCs and Strykers, though similar in outward appearance, are so much different in capability that you won't be close to simulating Aussies, you'll be simulating Strykers painted up as such. Heck, I don't even know if the Aussie Army uses the fire-team concept or the fire-support-group concept at the section level. In which case, even the infantry squad/section would be vastly difference in technique and capability. Hell, why not just paint iron crosses on the Strykers and pretend they're Sdkfz-234s, and paint the infantry in Feldgrau colours.

As a result, I can understand why Gib would have an objection to anything claiming to be a representation of the ADF, even 'At user's own risk', if you know what I mean. It would be such a non-approximation of the Australian forces that I can understand why someone who is proud of it would take not just objection, but also offence at the utter mischaracterisation of his organisation.

And that's before you get to this bit:

If the powers that be see this mod then the “accurate” and “simulation” tests are failed before we go anywhere.

Fortunately, Rob Carpenter's a very switched-on lad, and he might know that the mod is just what you guys intend it to be, but not everyone in the procurement chain is as savvy. Imagine if some Armour LTC in charge of sim procurement is evaluating CM-SF, sees a link saying "Hey, with this we can simulate our Army", downloads it, and then concludes "Dear God, this is a crap simulation of the Aussies. I have no idea why we should buy this"

NTM

[ December 27, 2007, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Trooper ]

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