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Special Forces options in CMSF


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I was wondering if and how Special Forces will be used in the game, will they be like ordinary units except more trained, better equipt, and more experienced? OR will there be special missions just for Special Forces? a whole new set of parameters for their missions? anyone who's got the scoop can go ahead and post their two cents.

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BFC balked at putting special forces into CMAK. No LRDG or SAS, despite pleas and protests. The most we got out of them was the specialized 10th Mtn. Division in Italy. Maybe if someone with high security clearance was willing to send BFC the Delta Force TO&E, and a couple tactical manuals... ;)

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I'd have thought that if CM:SF does well the obvious way to build on it's success would be a CM:SO, with adding things like "Littlebirds" and absailing from Helicopters.

Remember the new philosophy, we can have anything we want, but not for nothing, It's not so much do lots of us want it as will lots of us pay for it.

Being a sucker, I probably would.

Peter.

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i don't see why there can't be special forces platoons/squads, just because its supposed to be a company/battalion scaled game doesnt mean you never work with small unit tactics in squad or platoon strength. I see many a scenario recreated as well, the failed Iran hostage rescue, the October 3rd firefight in Mogadishu(Black Hawk Down), they would also be essential in snatching operations for Syrian generals, insurgent leaders, and politicians.

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Well ignoring the new "less is more" paridigm that BFC seems to be going by, would it really be worth it? Moving 1 squad (or more likely 2 fire teams) around doesn't seem terribly fun.

Besides, I imagine modern SF is much like airborne in WW2. Very tough, extremely stubborn defenders with fairly limited attack capcity simply because the only have what they can carry on their backs with ammo being the big issue. I imagine most of their power comes from the stealth/suprise angle. I just can't see 12 "legs" (even 12 very tough well arms legs) making a memorable impression in a mech company attack.

I can imagine a cool scenario where say the remanents of an SF team is pinned down and the stryker boys having to pull their asses out of the fire before they are overrun. But it seems like it would be a lot of work for 1 cool scenario.

Lets not even get start on the potential for abuse in QB.

[ December 08, 2005, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Dillweed ]

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That being said, if they dedicated a whole module to SF giving them the attention they deserve with a campaign centered around them??? Who knows, might be cool. I still think if the smallest unit you control is a fire team the scale would be all wrong. I know one of thier big jobs is training of indigenous forces, tho. I could see a campaign centered around a company of SF trained militia with the nucleus being the 12 man squad.

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there you go! the training scenarios sound awesome, that should add some more forces to the map to keep from moving the same unit turn after turn. But you can have bigger sized SF, Rangers work in company sized units all the time, even Deltas work in platoons on some missions. The retrieving a pinned SF unit from behind enemy lines sounds good, too.

The options dont have to be limited, you can have ambushes, rescues, snatch operations, recon missions, assasinations. And many different insertion methods too, by boat, by chopper, by land, by HALO jump maybe. I dunno, but the idea appeals to me, theres something special about being able to insert stealthily by air, infiltrate a sleeping city, assasinate a terrorist leader, and getting out all in an hour smile.gif

P.S. Battlefield 2 got a module just for special forces, why shouldn't CMSF?

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Originally posted by Iron_man:

The options dont have to be limited, you can have ambushes, rescues, snatch operations, recon missions, assasinations. And many different insertion methods too, by boat, by chopper, by land, by HALO jump maybe. I dunno, but the idea appeals to me, theres something special about being able to insert stealthily by air, infiltrate a sleeping city, assasinate a terrorist leader, and getting out all in an hour smile.gif

P.S. Battlefield 2 got a module just for special forces, why shouldn't CMSF?

That sounds like it might be a good game, but ask yourself is that Combat Mission?

I don't know, a SF module might be cool. But only if they can make it substantially different from the main game.

1) CM:SF Rag-tag Syrians vs mech and armored US units

doesn't seem sufficiently different from

2) CM:SF(SF) VERY rag-tag syrian rebels led by small groups of Elite SF troops vs slightly less rag-tag armored and mech Syrains

to warrant a module. Of course I don't make wargames, so maybe BFC can find a way.

As for the last question.

Because the company that made BF2 is PURE EVIL, thats why.

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well, ya, i already knew of it's evil, and i checked the reviews and the module seems to be total crap... but nonetheless! I still believe that a special forces expansion pack will be beneficial for both BFC and its fans.

another reason that came to mind for this mod, balance. I'm sure players will want a change from "US sends in Air support, carpet bombs the area w/ Arty, moves in with strykers to clean the mess" to more like "US Navy SEALs and Syrian paramilitary freedom fighters surrounded, outnumbered, and outgunned". It certanily makes the game more balanced and challanging wouldn't you think?

im not saying that every operation in CMSF will be like the one i explained (total oblieration of area), but i beleive the trend will be more or less US superiority in technology and support options, not to mention advanced infantry capabilities (if Land Warrior and a host of other next-generation infantry projects havn't been cancelled yet, which i think they have).

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There might be SF guys in CM:SF, but in support of general forces. In other words, there might be a handful of SF guys in a scenario. If they are included they are not there to be Rambos, there are there to be like the real SF guys are... as a force multiplyer. Observation of the enemy, CAS, and other things are what a frontline commander would typically expect to see from SF the rare time they see them. Generally they wouldn't, and so neither should the player. Mogadishu was not at all a typical situation so take that one right out of the "but... " type arguments :D

Rangers, SEALs, and other Special Ops forces are absolutely not part of the plan for CM:SF. We don't see a Module of SF being interesting enough to do. Don't get me wrong, what they do is EXTREMELY interesting, but it is the sort of thing that is better suited to FPS games than what we are doing.

Steve

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Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Rangers, SEALs, and other Special Ops forces are absolutely not part of the plan for CM:SF. We don't see a Module of SF being interesting enough to do. Don't get me wrong, what they do is EXTREMELY interesting, but it is the sort of thing that is better suited to FPS games than what we are doing.

Steve

Good to hear that. I am less than thrilled by the idea of some sort of 'Commandos' game. My main interest lies in company/battalion level combined arms tactics, not in nursing a squad of elite soldiers through a village at night in order to capture 'vital documents' or to assasinate a high-ranking officer...
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I think BFC has a great idea, include a single "Rambo" character among selectable units! A muscley little guy with long hair and no shirt running around (without fatiguing) firing an old M60 from the hip. Unable to be commanded by the player, of course. Then 30 seconds into the game, after he's dead, we can continue on with the rest of the game.

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And he says things like in "that other game"

In one of those command and conquer games that commando character has a few choice lines but its been at least 5 years since I played that I can't remember what he says.

Some kind of bravado things like "Bring it On!" or something.

who knows what that guy said in that old game?

-tom w

[ December 09, 2005, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

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Originally posted by Iron_man:

they would be combatants, like the counterpart to the HQ unit in CMBB or CMAK.

mmm...that's not really what SF trains for. If the high value target is in the midst of an active battlefield and surrounded by active units under their command, then a "snatch" is not really an option anymore.
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a snatch would only be permitted if if the circumstances of the operations deem it possible, obviously. Those circumstances include enemy presence, US force capability in the area, etc. I know everyone is tired of the Black Hawk Down comparisons but in that operation, they did a snatch for 2 officers with a company sized force in the heart of a city inhabited by literally thousands of enemy combatants, with casualties and all the mission was an overall success.

about getting the officers to surrender: if they are accompanied by many allied troops and aren't likely to willingly surrender, then you maybe could use a special SF only order like 'deploy non-leathal munition' or you can just get really close and apprehend him with hand-to-hand fighting.

i dont think Special Forces will take away from the essence of Combat Mission, it will only add another way to play it, some people can choose not to use SF to their full extent, and use them as frontline troops, nobody is forced to use them. Perhaps you can do optional missions in which you use only special forces and indegenous rebels to disrupt enemy communications and supplies, which will in turn make your regular campaign easier by lowering enemy ammunition levels, artillery support, morale, etc. I would welcome this type of stuff but i have a feeling that BFC is not interested at all...

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