Olle Petersson Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 There's been some serious discussion about how to protect the upcoming release of Steel Beasts from piracy, and that discussion together with the modular system intended for CMx2 make me just think: Dongle! Dongle protection seems to be just right for CMx2, at least for those of us that are likely to buy more than one module. The only known downside with a dongle is that the hardware costs from 40$ and up, depending on model. You don't need more than one though, and with dongle protection the software can be distributed simply as easy access downloads and/or on disks without copy protection. (That, in turn, usually ends up as cheaper license cost! ) To make the game run you buy a license that's installed on your dongle, and plug the dongle into any computer that has the game installed. When a new module is available, download and install the software, then upgrade your license in the dongle. Perhaps there still needs to be a more conventional release version as well, to attract those that haven't yet "seen the light"... Cheers Olle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I could be wrong be even the dongle is not fool proof I don't know of any games out there that use dongles but there are other software titles that require dongles and EVEN that does not prevent me from finding a downloadable cracked version of the software to download (illegally of course) and install without the dongle. A dongled vesion of the game for the Mac might never be cracked because there is very little demand, but I would guess even with a dongle the PC version would be cracked and available for illegal download in all the usual places in a form that would run without the dongle. I could be wrong but I don't think dongles are as secure or fool proof as some folks he might think. -tom w [ September 12, 2005, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Originally posted by Olle Petersson: The only known downside with a dongle is that the hardware costs from 40$ and up, depending on model. Yeah, but that's a *huge* downside. It doubles the cost of the game, and you don't really receive any benefit from that. I mean, if all other games required the use of a dongle, so you already had one lying around, then, sure, maybe it would be the way to go. But to get to that point, you need to have someone giving them away, and then you need - at least initially - some reason to put up with the inconvenience of the dongle. Although I do wonder what happens in the everyone-has-a-dongle universe if you lose your dongle. Or it goes through the wash or is stolen...do you then lose access to all of your games? I'm also skeptical that it can't be hacked. Oh, and the other downside is the name. If you're going to have some device that gamers are going to be whipping out before they play games, that device needs a less flaccid sounding name than "dongle." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Lord Peter: Oh, and the other downside is the name. If you're going to have some device that gamers are going to be whipping out before they play games, that device needs a less flaccid sounding name than "dongle." Instead of 'dongle" maybe they could call it a "lord peter". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Znarf Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Olle Petersson: ...The only known downside with a dongle is that the hardware costs from 40$ and up, depending on model. ....Cheers Olle If I have to buy something else to play the game, I won't buy the game. I'm all for respecting the IP rights of developers and publishers. I just don't want more crap that I have to deal with. I'd rather just put the cd in and play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Znarf: (snip) I'd rather just put the cd in and play. Agreed! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lord Peter: Oh, and the other downside is the name. If you're going to have some device that gamers are going to be whipping out before they play games, that device needs a less flaccid sounding name than "dongle." Instead of 'dongle" maybe they could call it a "lord peter". </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Why not do what Matrix does and have a registration code that you have to use for patches as well.It may not stop people pirating the game but it stops people who have copies only from having the patches.WiTP is a good example of this,you can get a copy easily enough but none of the "cracked" patches work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lord Peter: Oh, and the other downside is the name. If you're going to have some device that gamers are going to be whipping out before they play games, that device needs a less flaccid sounding name than "dongle." Instead of 'dongle" maybe they could call it a "lord peter". </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi Guys I think Im pretty safe in saying that we wont be using dongles guys. I used to have to use them with 3D Max and they were nothing but a pain in the butt (they conflicted with other hardware, didnt always register, etc). On top of that I know that there were cracks floating around for 3D max and many people felt that they were more reliable to use than the dongle itself, hehe. In the end even that product, which sold for thousands of dollars, decided to get rid of them and go with the windows registration method (which has also been crack). Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Abbott: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lord Peter: Oh, and the other downside is the name. If you're going to have some device that gamers are going to be whipping out before they play games, that device needs a less flaccid sounding name than "dongle." Instead of 'dongle" maybe they could call it a "lord peter". </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Lurking Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hi! There is always the "Lok & Kee" security system used with Harpoon 3 which once set up is pretty unobtrusive and also lets you run the game without a CD in the drive. But BF please PLEASE don't even think about going the route of the NWN expansions which require the player to have an active internet connection every time the game is played. This is a deal breaker if there ever was one. David 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 NWN = ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 NeverWinter Nights, you ignoramous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Ruddy Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 No Dongles! I hate Dongles! I'm not sure how much lost revenue CM suffers from piracy - I think it's probably the bigger sellers that the teenies want to rip & distribute. (NWN, BF2, MOH etc...) SafeDisc I've never had any problems with SafeDisc protected games, although some folks have complained that they won't play on certain cd drives. Another option is to force users to register before playing tcp/ip or PBEM. Again, I am not sure if the amount of piracy this would curb is worth spending time and money on a complex registration / verification system. The bottom line is that even the biggest software companies can't stop the pirating even after spending God knows how much in counter measures. I'm thinking a simple cheap solution to keep the honest people honest may be the best option for cmx2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 We are looking at some specific options, but dongles are not one of them. Piracy is a huge problem for us, as it is for the rest of the games industry. Finding CMAK available for sale for $5 at street markets in places like Sydney really sucks. We expect the $1 street price in places like Uzbekistan (yes, we did get a report from there, or near there), but not from places with functioning law enforcement. And of course there all those "nice" weenies downloading ripped versions for free. Since we can't irradicate piracy, we will have to do whatever we can that is reasonable or us. It is a matter of survival, which means doing nothing is not an option. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningWar Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I know some people hate Steam but honestly it has been great to me. It is also nice to be able to simply reinstall without having to search for a CD. Online distribution isnt a bad option imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Originally posted by LightningWar: I know some people hate Steam but honestly it has been great to me. It is also nice to be able to simply reinstall without having to search for a CD. Online distribution isnt a bad option imo. Theoretically fine if you're not on a modem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 My daughter woud no doubt take the dongle and use it as a fashion accessory for her latest "My Little Pony" or somefink. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastttt Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 so long as they stay away from Starforce BF will have my business SF has locked me out of my combo drive's burning functions and has completly locked me out of my cd/dvd drive(read only) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunSheep Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Mmmm...I really hate to state the obvious but copy protection in any way/shape/form doesn't work. The only people who are affected by copy protection is your paying customers. Whatever you use (safedisk, dongle, virgin sacrifice, bloodpacts, leaving the cd in, steam, etc, etc, ad nasum) will be cracked (in hours..sometimes in days) of the release of a game. If someone wants to steal the game they will find a way. Then there are your paying customers...who are dealing with interesting problems like not being able to read the CD because of safe disk, corrupted installs, and listening to the scream of their CD-ROM every time they run the game. They just want to play....but are left with a useless coaster due to the copy protection. So what exactly is copy protection preventing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 While I agree with you to a point…Gunsheep.. Steve has always been pretty up-front with us, his customers. While BFC has developed a loyal following here on the Forums, some of us will buy their products just to pitch-in if you will. I have to believe the man when he says piracy is a problem or he would not waste his time mentioning it. That makes me think that our Fan base here is only a small part of BFC’s sales. I know I will buy CMX2 sight unseen as soon as it is available because the CM 1 series was so great and to let you know I am not blind…I purchased T-72 BoF and was disappointed. However that was not a BFC in house product. I would like no copy protection just install throw the CD in the rack and play but I will live with what BFC thinks is needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Originally posted by GunSheep: Mmmm...I really hate to state the obvious but copy protection in any way/shape/form doesn't work. Actually thats not true. Yes pretty much all protection can be cracked yet the more trouble it is to do so the more liklely that someone will buy a product they are interested in instead of stealing it. Off of the top of my head take Joint Operations and even Battlefield 2 as an example. These games require you to create an account with your own unique CD key and then to log into that account to play online. Without a genuine CD key the server wont let you log in. For games such as these unless you are really cheap and want to go to a lot of trouble its simply much easier simply to buy the prodcut than it is to pirate it. Dan [ September 14, 2005, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Just please don't require an active internet connection to be able to play solo or PBEM. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immacolata Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Single player games are where copy protection doesn't work well. BF2 and JO are both multiplayer heavy games. So if any kind of meaningful (read: working) copy protection for CMx2 should be implemented, it requires a server backend with a log of unique cd-keys, mandatory online validation etc. The closest thing Ive seen to a copy protection that works on pc (exluding online games) is Starforce. And even that isn't proof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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