The properties of water

[Philippe]

I gather that amphibious operations won't happen in CMx2 until many modules into the package.

Still, I would like to ask the design group to think about some of this now, because any coding complications that it may cause may be too difficult to deal with later on.

Landing craft may or may not be glorified trucks floating on water. The key word is floating, and when they start shipping water they behave differently. Since I get the impression there may be some systems modeling in the offing that becomes a question of fiddling with the movement system.

A key difference between landing craft and trucks, however, is the surface they are moving on. Besides being wet, water has a couple of weird characteristics: it gets choppy and it has currents. Choppy water is not such a problem -- you can probably create a terrain class called rough water and leave it at that. It also has an effect on LOS if you're at water level bouncing around in a small boat.

The weather won't change that much in the course of a scenario (or at least I hope it won't), but the surfaces that the craft are floating on will move. Currents cause drift, and that's a lot different from what happens on a road or a field. So you'll probably have to figure out a way to have everything in the water move a certain number of decimeters per minute in the direction of the current. And the fun starts when you start trying to figure out if everything drifts at the same rate...

I only mention this because a few years back I managed to get myself into a small shipwreck in Yugoslavia brought on by, among other things, a leaky boat, a leaky fuel line, sea water in the gas tank, strong currents, very choppy water (i.e. a strong wind), and some very sharp and jagged rocky cliffs.

[Sergei]

Yes, having realistically portrayed T-38's will be central for CMx2.

[Gordon]

Drift definitely varies from object to object. Wind can either accelerate or counteract drift depending on the wind direction and speed and the current's direction and speed. Tides can be modelled as a form of current and the change in water depth attributed to tides probably isn't significant enough within the time frame of a CMx2 game.

However, we MUST have waves, even though "Charlie don't surf!"

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Yes, having realistically portrayed T-38's will be central for CMx2.

Only for the initial module, which will be <font color="dark red">Finland 1939.</font>

[Battlefront.com]

Water is one of my favorite elements. Maybe even cooler than fire... though that is just my opinion. So rest assured I am all about water and water effects. And having just had the bow of a canoe picked up and moved about 180 by a big gust of wind 2 weeks ago, I am all too familiar that moving on water is not exactly the same as moving across a parking lot But enough about my canoe...

There isn't really anything we need to do about water at the moment. When we come to it we'll have one of two choices.

Option 1 - flat, static terrain with minimal properties of bodies of water.

Option 2 - animated, full featured water with the properties you'd expect from it.

Which choice we go with will depend upon the importance of water to that particular setting. If water is an peripheral feature it will be Option 1, otherwise we'll go with Option 2 if it really is central enough. But it will HAVE to be central in order to make it worth doing all that work. For example, supporting river crossings in an otherwise land based game will likely be Option 1. Making a PTO island hopping campaign game would most likely warrant Option 2. That sort of thing.

Either way, the code we have now neither helps nor hinders our choices of water modeling in the future. It's so different it really is a separate issue to tackle.

Steve

[Boo Radley]

When artillery smacks into water, will it splash or will it throw up dirt?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Boo Radley:

When artillery smacks into water, will it splash or will it throw up dirt?

Both.

Michael

[Tero]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

Yes, having realistically portrayed T-38's will be central for CMx2.

Only for the initial module, which will be <font color="dark red">Finland 1939.</font> </font>

[Bertram]

If ther is ice, I demand the famous dutch "schaatseenheid" (skate truppen)!

[Battlefront.com]

If ther is ice, I demand the famous dutch "schaatseenheid" (skate truppen)!

Sorry, but the game engine has no support for Spandex and sequins. Maybe for the next one.

Steve

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Sorry, but the game engine has no support for Spandex and sequins. Maybe for the next one.

If I'd paid attention to this thread when I was asked to join the beta team, I'd have declined. :mad:

[Primarch]

I herby declare Sergei he reanimator of 2 year old threads.

[MikeyD]

A weird thought.

CMSF has all the lunar cycles coded in already (yes, they REALLY do). If they divide the water features into 'Ocean' and 'River' they could theoretically code tidal cycles into the game! You may have to schedule your landing for 3am on a thursday to get a low tide and good stretch of beach! For 'River' perhaps the direction and strength of current could be specified.

Alternately we get flat CMx1 water tiles and get the next title a couple months sooner

[Joe Shaw]

As Posted by Steve of BFC: Making a PTO island hopping campaign game would most likely warrant Option 2.

EXCELLENT NEWS ... you heard him everyone, they WILL be doing a PTO island hopping game. I for one will be constantly monitoring the board and pestering B.F.C. for more information on a REGULAR basis.

Thanks Steve, you're the best. Now ... about that ACW WEGO game I mentioned ...

Joe

[Sergei]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

For 'River' perhaps the direction and strength of current could be specified.

Do not forget the effect of time of year. Spring floods and all. Can't do without them.