Zipuli Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Hey, little something about BMP-2 that cought my eye while doing some Syrian ops. In game it has crew of 2, and also manual says it has no stabilizer. I has a stabilizer - even if not as good and precise as the one in Brad, but it CAN fire on the move quite well indeed. Crew is 3 - TC, gunner, driver. In BMP-2 TC is in the turret (that is bigger than the one in BMP-1 even if manual states otherwise) and stays there and he does NOT command the footsquad, like in BMP-1, where the squadleader usually (in soviet style squad at least) sits in the hull commander's pos (behind driver) and while on move does TC duties and the dismounts with the grunts. I also guess the soviet style smoke launchers are not (yet?? ) modelled, as they have range of some 300m - not 20m as in game now. And firing the 30mm does not recoil so much that the vehicle shakes (like MBTs). And why cannot the infantry fire while mounted like in Stryker they can? Small details from a BMP-2 man, but as the game states it's a sim I wish BMP-2 is simulated correctly. Also hope Soviet equipment gets as much attention as the American Birdca... erm... Strykers. It's also the small things that matter. Would you be happy with a Tiger that can be nailed by a Sherman from front sector and has 75mm gun? Yeah, it's not nearly as bad, but Zip EDIT: retested and it seemed ammo counts are OK but some scens have less than full - only gripe is missile count... 1 on launcher 4 inside (4 places for missiles there) as default. [ August 01, 2007, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Zipuli ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B00M$LANG Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Originally posted by Zipuli:... EDIT: retested and it seemed ammo counts are OK but some scens have less than full - only gripe is missile count... 1 on launcher 4 inside (4 places for missiles there) as default. [/QB]If you are playing in campaign mode, I believe things like vehicle/soldier numbers and even ammo count are affected. Not sure, though, but I believe those levels are also set by the scenario designer as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yeah played 1 scen with Syrian side having about 2/3 of the ammo... Before I edited I had a thing about the A/C ammocount, butt retested and it was OK in full ammocount so edited it away... Zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roter Stern Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Hmm.. the real-life BMP-2 is described as having a crew of 3 + 7 passengers... where as in the game it's a crew of 2 + 8 passengers. Perhaps the BMP TC *is* also the squad commander in real-life doctrine? And that’s CMSF’s way of representing it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 To my knowledge it has commander, gunner and driver. In BMP-1 commander sits in the hull position. Just checked BMP-2 has a 2-man turret. So the crew is definately 3. This might actually be so that the commander is also counted as a squad leader. In Russian airborne BMDs this the standard procedure. Commander also often dismounts with the infantry. [ August 02, 2007, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: track ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 BMP-1 and BMD have 1 man turret... BMP-2 has similar turret as Bradley - 2 men. TC and Gunner have both their own equipment and remove the other and the vehicle loses a lot of fighting ability. Would you believe the TC even has his own periscope he can slew the gun with? And he has the only sight in the vehicle that can be used when the cannon is elevated to max. Gunner's sight can handle only to about 45 degrees and the gun goes to almost 90. TC also has the switch to choose ammo for A/C etc. He WILL NOT jump out and do grunt stuff. It's different with BMP-1 where the "TC" / Squad leader is in the hull and has no equipment to use in the vehicle. When he leaves the gunner/loader (many BMP-1 users removed the unreliable autoloader) takes TC role also - which means he does the same amount of stuff as 3 man turret crew in say M1 Zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong Soviet IFVs: 1) BMD-1 and BMP-1 1-man turret, 76mm gun 2) BMD-2 and BMP-2 2-man turret, 30mm auto-cannon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 "The BMD-2 is a variant of the BMD-1 with a new ONE-MAN TURRET with the gunner seated on the left and a single piece circular front-opening hatch cover..." fas.org See some pics of the vehice (with gunner out of the turret hatch) and you will see 2 men won't fit there, no way in heck. So yes, it's a 1 man turret in BMD-2. BMD is almost half the size of BMP. BMD-3: "The crew consists of commander, gunner, driver, and four infantrymen, with the commander normally dismounting with the squad." fas.org BMP-2 has bigger turret than BMP-1 (due to this BMP-2 with same size hull can man only 7 squaddies where BMP-1 has room for 9) and that's a 2 man turret. Zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 BMP-2 definitely has a stabilized gun, and a pretty good one at that - having seen it 'perform live' it can lay down accurate fire even on the move. Just a glitch in the manual or is it really unstabilized in the game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I'll bet we will spot a lot more stuff about Soviet/Russian vehicles as the time goes by and more games get played. Got BMD-2 and BMD-3 mixed up then in my mind. Won't make the same mistake again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalintc Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Yeah Zipuli is our resident expert on the BMP and BMD family, as he has served on them, crazy Finns You know you love the BMP Zip admit it!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 I had always heard that the export models of the BMP-2 were somewhat simplified to keep maintenance reasonable. Does anyone know if that may be the case with stabilization. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Guys, that is usefull info to know and it is great that you are noticing stuff. Can you also go into more detail to back up your info? Either external sources or maybe some of you had close experience with these vehicles? Zipuli I understand you have actually served on BMP-2 in real life? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Called as "Bemari" by the Finnish Defence Forces - or simply BMW for the rest of you. Here is a FDF info page: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/index.dsp?level=101&equipment=68 Yep 3-man crew + 7 passengers. [ August 02, 2007, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: track ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 Yes dima, that is right. I've wasted a lot of good time in those pieces of s*** and I should know a thing or two about them . And yes Stalin, for some reason I break into tears everytime one gets blown up in the game. I can't help it! Zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Originally posted by Zipuli: Yes dima, that is right. I've wasted a lot of good time in those pieces of s*** and I should know a thing or two about them . And yes Stalin, for some reason I break into tears everytime one gets blown up in the game. I can't help it! Zip Zip, there was recently a discussion on how much extra personnel ammo BMP-2 can carry. I found a russian brochure and found some info there but what surprised me is that by the book it was supposed to carry (among other things) only 700 rounds for AKM rifles. So little, I was surprised. Can you guess, was that ammo in addition to spare magazines that men had already with them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 dupe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 2, 2007 Author Share Posted August 2, 2007 There is not much room inside the BMP-2 for anything extra, as unlike in BMP-1 there is no room even under the inf seats (fuel tanks there in BMP-2). We never carried extra ammo for infantry but they had some in their vests and bags, but only few ammoboxes. There really is no place to put it. There was enough trouble getting the squad in with their LAWs and APILAS AT-weapons + the PKM. Zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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