Company of Heroes graphics and physics

[TeAcH]

...are beautiful. This game, although an RTS, would be simply outstanding as Combat Mission. Image this engine with CMs game design. Woo...sweet.

[Battlefront.com]

Cripes... another country heard from, as the saying goes. Howdy-do TeAcH!

Steve

[V]

Looks impressive...

[TeAcH]

Hi guys! I'm still a die-hard CM fan from back in the day..haha. Anyway, I mean no disrespect when I mention COH. I know the money and resources they have to make that engine....if only it was CM3. Man.

I know you all will pull of something great for your next engine. Try to add dual core support for larger maps and etc. Im sure this has been discussed to death.

Man, that CoH engine tho..outstanding. Maybe someone will mod it.

[Battlefront.com]

No offense taken

Steve

[pad152]

I really liked the demo of Faces of War, too bad the release is DOA (dead on arrival). The damage model is one of the best I've seen, I hit a tank with I bazzoka it bounces out and hits a truck that knocks off the bumper and right front tire. Now that's a damage model.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally posted by pad152:

I really liked the demo of Faces of War, too bad the release is DOA (dead on arrival). The damage model is one of the best I've seen, I hit a tank with I bazzoka it bounces out and hits a truck that knocks off the bumper and right front tire. Now that's a damage model.

A HEAT round bounced?

That sounds like a really ****ty damage model

[Sgt.Rock of Easy Company]

The round hit at to much of an angle and didnt detonate? Im not sure if bazookas ever did that, but I know that the Green Beret had some ricochets with the LAW's and BMP's in vietnam (though I think they were malfunctions with the LAW round)

[Homo ferricus]

not sure if this is relevant to the topic, but a Marine from Iraq told me he saw an RPG round ricochet off of another Marines head. He was knocked unconscious for a bit, lucky he was following SOP and had his helmet on.

[John Kettler]

Homo ferricus,

An RPG bounced off his (fortunately helmeted) head? Now, that's a story to tell the grandkids! A real attention getter to share with recruits during training, too.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Yes, I can imagine the results would not have been pleasant if it had detonated!

:eek:

Regards

Jim R.

[MoNuckah]

1,000s of RPGs fired off in Iraq monthly. Eventually weird stuff happens when war and the law of averages collide.

Quite amazing.

[MikeyD]

"The round hit at to much of an angle and didnt detonate? Im not sure if bazookas ever did that"

That precisely was the reason the U.S. had such horrible trouble with slope-sided T54s at the start of the Korean war. The old Bazooka warhead simply refused to detonate when striking an oblique angle over a certain number.

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, but these things didn't "bounce", they "skidded" or "deflected". The language is important here. Bouncing happens when something hits and dramatically changes direction. I can't see that happening with a shaped charge since it is supposed to squash and detonate. But the highly sloped shape of the Bazooka and RPG round would lend themselves to being deflected when hitting I highly sloped surface.

In the case of the fortunate Marine it didn't detonate because it hadn't met enough resistance to set it off. The Kevlar helmet is certainly hard enough since it wasn't pierced, but the force of the impact was counter acted by the Marine falling backwards, basically absorbing the blow. Lucky the force alone didn't kill him.

Steve

[Sivodsi]

Anyway, to get back to the topic, here is a quote from the unit descriptions in CoH:

"M3 Halftrack - transport vehicle used to transport and supply infantry units in the thick of battle"

Oh man, I been using them all wrong.

[Thomm]

Maybe it detonated after being deflected, upon hitting something solid?

[Thomm]

By the way, with regard to CoH: game is running on my system, but shows only a black 3D screen! Seems that they take fog-of-war very seriously!

[Denwad]

I recall reading an old field manual that contained diagrams for all sorts of weapon systems ( circa 1985 )

The manual did not recommend firing on a BMP from the front sector with a LAW for various reasons

- Extreme angle of the armor

- Turret usually oriented towards the front

[Jeff Duquette]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

"The round hit at to much of an angle and didnt detonate? Im not sure if bazookas ever did that"

That precisely was the reason the U.S. had such horrible trouble with slope-sided T54s at the start of the Korean war. The old Bazooka warhead simply refused to detonate when striking an oblique angle over a certain number.

I think you mean the sloping armor on NKPA T34/85s – or your finger hit the five key instead of the three key. Some of this was apparently traceable to ricochet. Some of it was attributable to old bazooka ammunition as well as fuzing issues. In addition, the shaped charge cone in the old bazooka projectile had a tendency to dislodge itself from its explosive. The projectile sometimes functioned more like a pseudo-HESH round than a shaped charge. The cone could be found afterward wadded up in baseball sized blobs. No jet action what so ever. This was apparently addressed with the M20 super bazooka which is said to have had very good success against NKPA T34/85’s. As I recall the Marines had occasion to use the M20 on a number of occasions vs. T34/85’s during their push through Inchon and Seoul.

Any projectile is going to have some ricochet potential -- depending on impact velocity, angle of attack and hardness of the target. The armor on the T34/85 was very hard. HHA like 350 to 400 BHN, and it was highly sloping.

I also have photos USMC trials of 90mm HEAT, and 90mm APBC that ricocheted from the glacis of an M48. Much softer cast armor, but highly sloping.

I think highly sloping armor can present problems with fuzing of HEAT rounds. I don’t know enough about fuzes to know why this is. But as I recall shoulder fuzes, in addition to the standard end of probe fuzes, were added to latter models of 105mm and 120mm HEAT – ala M456 and M830. Or maybe the M830 always had a shoulder fuze and probe fuze based upon experiences with the M456 – can’t recall the exact sequence of design changes.

Best Regards

JD

[SlapHappy]

Company of Heroes, based on what I saw in the demo(s) is not what I had hoped it would be.

It does look nice, though. Unfortunately not as nice, apparently as the DirectX 10 version which will be supported in Vista? Not sure about that last part......

[Battlefront.com]

SlapHappy,

It does look nice, though. Unfortunately not as nice, apparently as the DirectX 10 version which will be supported in Vista? Not sure about that last part......

Hey, nobody is sure about that last part. I mean, when is Vista ever going to be released? Will people feel that it was worth the wait, then feel it is worth the cost to upgrade? Oh wait... you meant about DirectX 10 being supported by Vista or not? Sorry, my mistake

Steve

[Homo ferricus]

a friend of mine already his vista, but the computer that he wants to run it on refuses to work.

[Hpt. Lisse]

A few quick notes from a CM player on CoH:

For the click crowd, CoH is a fairly impressive game, but not without numerous flaws. Among these:

> The game is insanely fast - it needs a speed slider like Kato Kalin needs a carrer. With four difficulties, Easy, Normal, Hard and Expert, most players can't beat the computer on "Normal."

> Yes, is can seamlessly zoom in to a beautiful high-res firefight - but to take the 10 seconds to do so is absolute suicide. The board/big picture must be managed every second, with frequent pausing along the way.

> HMG's and AT guns, which have limited firing arcs, must be manually told to change that arc, even when threatened.

> AFV's which suffer damaged engines are not immobilized, they just slow down, of particular annoyance when battling assualt guns like Stugs.

> Even after the first patch, there are SERIOUS bugs. On hilly terrain, units can literally shoot through the landscape/escarpments. Axis AFV's occassionally become invincible when their health is reduced to almost zero. When depleted rifle squads (they're half sqauds of 6 men) are sent back to HQ to get re-inforcements, they occassionally become stuck there, permanently. (Important, because you many only have so-many units in the world.) Engineers will construct barbed wire/sand bag walls - and end up stranded on the wrong (enemy) side. Instead of hanging back at a good range, AFV's will blindly charge forward into enemy groups when ordered to fire upon them (as if "target that unit" and "bonzai!" were rolled into the same command.) Pathfinding is largely decent, but sometimes screws the pootch, particularly when it comes to AFV's protecting their vulnerable rear.

I could go on, but you get the idea. CoH's point/resource system is well-constructed, and the single-player campaign is good. But there are many issues to be sorted out before I'd give this one an 8 out of 10. Relic may have given us the revolutionary Homeworld, but after playing CoH, I'm a little surprised at the gushing reviews.

'Course, if CMC or TOW would just come out, I wouldn't have to bother with lesser games...

[Salkin]

Hpt. Lisse you may have a few points in the post above but having never played the homeworld series my opinion is that Company Of Heroes is the best RTS ever (with the exception of games like RTW, but I don't really put that with the regular RTS games, the same will be true for CMX2 I'm sure.).

Hpt. Lisse compare Company of Heroes with Command and Conquer, Warcraft, The battle for Middle Earth, Star Wars Empire at war, Dawn of War and even the classic Starcraft and this game beats them all by a wide margin !

I'm not going to beat around the bush about that this game belongs with the previously mentioned bandwagon games (clones basicly) but this one actually adds alot of new great things.

Heck you can even find traces of tactics in there if you look hard enough.

Point is this game is not your cup of tea, but for people liking this type of game (I usually dislike the standard RTS game..) it's an excellent buy.

[EDIT]When reading your post more closely I see that we agree that this game is not for the CM crowd :blush: .

//Salkin

Gamer who loves all GREAT games

[Salkin]

Originally posted by Hpt. Lisse:

[Q] A few quick notes from a CM player on CoH:

For the click crowd, CoH is a fairly impressive game, but not without numerous flaws. Among these:

> The game is insanely fast - it needs a speed slider like Kato Kalin needs a carrer. With four difficulties, Easy, Normal, Hard and Expert, most players can't beat the computer on "Normal."

This is not a flaw, it's a feature .

This game is aimed at the competetive twitch crowd, they like it fast.

....

> HMG's and AT guns, which have limited firing arcs, must be manually told to change that arc, even when threatened.

This is also a feature. Just because this game is beautifull doesn't mean it's realistic. The point is the best competetive player will micromanage his units so they are set up pointing in the right direction at the right time. This enhances the tactical aspect of the game.

> AFV's which suffer damaged engines are not immobilized, they just slow down, of particular annoyance when battling assualt guns like Stugs.

This is for game balance and to make the game more fun and less of a chore. In a game with a pace this fast an immobilised Stug would be dead. It's also a very expensive loss. The twitch crowd would immedietly start complaining if they could loose their vehicle that easy.

> Even after the first patch, there are SERIOUS bugs. On hilly terrain, units can literally shoot through the landscape/escarpments. Axis AFV's occassionally become invincible when their health is reduced to almost zero. When depleted rifle squads (they're half sqauds of 6 men) are sent back to HQ to get re-inforcements, they occassionally become stuck there, permanently. (Important, because you many only have so-many units in the world.) Engineers will construct barbed wire/sand bag walls - and end up stranded on the wrong (enemy) side. Instead of hanging back at a good range, AFV's will blindly charge forward into enemy groups when ordered to fire upon them (as if "target that unit" and "bonzai!" were rolled into the same command.) Pathfinding is largely decent, but sometimes screws the pootch, particularly when it comes to AFV's protecting their vulnerable rear.

These things occur very seldom if you have the latest patch installed and I'm pretty sure there's more fixes on the way.

I could go on, but you get the idea. CoH's point/resource system is well-constructed, and the single-player campaign is good. But there are many issues to be sorted out before I'd give this one an 8 out of 10. Relic may have given us the revolutionary Homeworld, but after playing CoH, I'm a little surprised at the gushing reviews.

I'm not surprised at the great reviews at all. If you compare all your games to CM you are bound to end up dissapointed. CM is a unique game with some of the most fun gameplay ever invented. You really should consider taking your expectations down a notch.

//Salkin

[/Q]