I invented a powerful way to protect tanks strongly cheaply an lowtech; implications?

[flamingknives]

I would hazard that there are plenty of people that know exactly what they are talking about around here.

However they may well get bored with a topic with no substance save metal y-fronts.

[Other Means]

AIUI flamingknives does this kind of thing for a living. However he has a sane persons threshold for nutjobs so it's up to him if he wants to listen to you. Not that I'm saying you're a nutjob, just pointing it out as an attribute of flamingknives.

See, you've posted nothing about what the idea is, just that you've thought of it. And as people are paid to think of these type of things and they've had to go to school for a long time (where they also learned to spell and construct sentences), we're kinda doubtful your idea would work.

So - you've given us nothing to do really but post ad hominems; that's what you're going to get.

Either post something that allows us to judge the idea rather than you, send it to someone who's word we'd take, or give it up.

Up to you mate.

[flamingknives]

I would point out that the effect of making ATGMs obsolescent would have very little effect on the geopolitical scale. The ATGM, when it made it's debut, was touted as making the tank obsolete. It didn't. People found new ways of using their tanks, new tactics for supporting them and, rapidly, new armour technologies to counter them. Then comes Javelin and Spike - capable of destroying any MBT on the planet, either firing and forgetting or firing from defilade, so many of the counter ATGM tactics no longer work. But, we have active defenses and the like coming on line to stop those, and counter to that we have LOSAT and CKEM - type weapons. However, each time these weapons or defences have taken a leap forward, leaving a delay in the capabilities of the other side until they catch up or take a step beyond, there has been no sudden aggression due to new-found power or invulnerability.

The people that widespread defeat of ATGM would really hurt would be the Western forces, as attack helicopters, artillery, infantry and the majority of aircraft - in fact any unit other than heavy armour - would be unable to defeat enemy armour.

While the Lebenon-based terrorists would not be able to defeat an Israeli incursion in the manner in which they did, peacekeeping forces elsewhere would be under less threat from RPG attack, and therefore better able to carry out their mission.

The Israeli incursion was clearly badly carried out, from an ethical viewpoint as well as a tactical, operational and strategic one, but equally the Lebanon-based terrorists shouldn't have been lobbing rockets at Israel in the first place. But let's not get into that one because it's messy and we're certainly not going to solve it here.

[Wicky]

Three quotes come to mind that fit the thread, all from Paul Verey:

“Two dangers constantly threaten the world: order and disorder.”

and

“The best way to make your dreams come true is to wake up.”

and lastly

"Underpants have the same enemies as people: fire, humidity, animals, weather, and their own content.”

Originally posted by cool breeze:

This topic isn't supposed to be about technology and armor, it is about world affairs and power struggle and help.

[rammer4250]

Is this a tolerance test?

I don't know who I can tolerate less. Either the thread starter or the people actually trying to talk to him in a rational manner.

Would somebody please kick me in the gonads please. It would be less painful than reading this thread.

[cool breeze]

My invention doesn't work against guided bombs or DPICM. It can be defeated by teamwork, which the west has in abundance. Its not particularly good with RPGs. Im really not wanting to discuss the invention here, I want someone who will tell me what would happen if I am completely right about my inventions effects. If nations could upgrade there entire tank force in a few months to be highly resistant to atgms, what may happen. How would it effect possible major wars America could become involved in is very important too. And, Why shouldn't I sell it to everyone when everyone will get it If I sell it at all.

[flamingknives]

I think a line or few from Radiohead's "Just" is pertinent for rammer

"you do it to yourself/

you do/

and that's what really hurts"

[RichMac]

Originally posted by Wicky:

"Underpants have the same enemies as people: fire, humidity, animals, weather, and their own content.”

I've never heard that one before. I'm going to be laughing for days!

Coolbreeze, does this require a DeLorean and 1.21 gigawatts? I think warping in and out of 1955 while the ATGM screams by is absolutely brilliant.

[JasonC]

The Ingenious Patriot

Having obtained an audience of the King an ingenious Patriot pulled a paper from his pocket, saying:

"May it please your Majesty, I have here a formula for constructing armour-plating which no gun can pierce. If these plates are adopted in the Royal Navy our warships will be invulnerable, and therefore invincible. Here, also, are reports of your Majesty's Ministers, attesting the value of the invention. I will part with my right in it for a million tumtums."

After examining the papers, the King put them away and promised him an order on the Lord High Treasurer of the Extortion Department for a million tumtums.

"And here," said the Ingenious Patriot, pulling another paper from another pocket, "are the working plans of a gun that I have invented, which will pierce that armour. Your Majesty's Royal Brother, the Emperor of Bang, is anxious to purchase it, but loyalty to your Majesty's throne and person constrains me to offer it first to your Majesty. The price is one million tumtums."

Having received the promise of another check, he thrust his hand into still another pocket, remarking:

"The price of the irresistible gun would have been much greater, your Majesty, but for the fact that its missiles can be so effectively averted by my peculiar method of treating the armour plates with a new--"

The King signed to the Great Head Factotum to approach.

"Search this man," he said, "and report how many pockets he has."

"Forty-three, Sire," said the Great Head Factotum, completing the scrutiny.

"May it please your Majesty," cried the Ingenious Patriot, in terror, "one of them contains tobacco."

"Hold him up by the ankles and shake him," said the King; "then give him a check for forty-two million tumtums and put him to death. Let a decree issue declaring ingenuity a capital offence."

- Ambrose Bierce, "Fantastic Tales"

[flamingknives]

The effects are dependent on what exactly it prevents. If it prevents guidance, then unguided weapons are back in, with all the attendant problems of those. Cluster munitions and the like.

Of course, it can be used without unveiling it. By knowing what it is it can be sold to the US govt. so they can develop countermeasures, in case someone else comes up with it.

It is often the case that concepts are identified in parallel - more than one person will come up with an idea. The challenge is to make it work, and it's that that takes time and effort, which are not so easily replicated.

Oh, and as to why you should not sell it elsewhere, they are called the International Traffic in Arms Regulations.

[Nidan1]

Originally posted by RichMac:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wicky:

"Underpants have the same enemies as people: fire, humidity, animals, weather, and their own content.”

I've never heard that one before. I'm going to be laughing for days!

Coolbreeze, does this require a DeLorean and 1.21 gigawatts? I think warping in and out of 1955 while the ATGM screams by is absolutely brilliant. </font>

[Wicky]

Depends if it is as cheap as applique recycled cardboard egg cartons with the capability to perform as kryptonite.

Even so all the panzers smothered in good ol' Zimmerit got fiendishly knocked out by various other methods. So nothing is foolproof.

If you don't tell anyone of your invention then no one will have it, or develop a countermeasure against it and you'll remain poor. The world will carry on as normal.

Or cut out the middle man - equip a fleet of your own vehicles (we'll volunteer to crew your private army for a small percentage) with your uber defences and while you're technologically ahead, do a Gort and impose your will on the world by demanding from all the players in the world that they surrender their weapons and pay you a ransom of billions. Viola World peace in a snip and you'll be very rich. Simple choices really

Originally posted by cool breeze:

My invention doesn't work against guided bombs or DPICM. It can be defeated by teamwork, which the west has in abundance. Its not particularly good with RPGs. Im really not wanting to discuss the invention here, I want someone who will tell me what would happen if I am completely right about my inventions effects. If nations could upgrade there entire tank force in a few months to be highly resistant to atgms, what may happen. How would it effect possible major wars America could become involved in is very important too. And, Why shouldn't I sell it to everyone when everyone will get it If I sell it at all.

[ December 29, 2007, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[cool breeze]

FlamingKnives I want to release it secretly to USA but worry about things like it making USA leaders want to attack Iran with there secret ATGM nerfing system. Or other ways America may use it for evil and control (not defense). I love America but do not trust our leaders at all. Thank you for the feedback and help.

[thewood]

Is it too early for a...

Hi Mom!

[flamingknives]

Iran will cause more casualties via other means (as opposed to Other Means, who will remain safely stored in England) compared to ATGMs. Unguided weapons, IEDs, media reports and other insurgency measures would be mroe effective.

Unlike the Israelis, who were forced to attack as a limited action along a narrow front, ATGMs working or not would not necessarily feature in strategic planning. The US army is extremely proficient in heavy armour offensive operations.

[cool breeze]

IMPORTANT Its no where near invulnerable or undefeatable, just very useful. It only helps in certain common conditions and coordination beats it soundly in most of them too. Unless a huge war breaks out Im pretty sure it wont save more than 200 tankers ever. Do tanks do more harm than good? In the possible wars that may break out what will the effect be of having tanks at long range being substantially more protected than current? Will more or fewer civilians be killed? Soldiers? what wars may it change the victor of? What wars may it incite? These are the questions that have been stressing much the last few months. How does may this effect use and control of resources. I'm not saying any of this will happen, but I can only save so many lives with the millions I may get for this, so I need some kind of idea what the consequences may be. I don't think this will effect any of your lives, but even very modest changes in war can be very important to thousands of people.

[Wicky]

Have you in the US a show we have in the UK called 'Dragons' Den' - business venture capitalist programme.

Are you an entrepreneur? A visionary? An inventor? Do you have an idea to sell, or a product you want to manufacture?

When you don’t have enough money and the bank won’t grant you a loan…it’s time to enter the Dragons’ Den.

Dragons’ Den will provide you with the money you want and need to get your business off the ground, but first you must convince the ‘Dragons’ that you are capable.

Do you have what it takes to survive the Dragons’ Den?

Our story, by the Dragons' Den millionaires

[cool breeze]

FlamingKnives,

would Javelins not working without extra support matter much to USA casualties? I mean in case Iran found out about the secret project too soon.

[cool breeze]

Wicky,

Thanks for the help. Im not worried about having trouble getting money for development. I think that will be easy, not taking many years even if Im slow.

and If I did that show the bad guys would know it too.

Cheers,

Sam

[Wicky]

Don't stress - The BBC has the occasional 'behind closed doors' edition for precisely these kind of important military applications to stop the Iranians know what we are scheming.

First I advise you to make a prototype to conduct some rudimentary tests, like these engineers testing a lightweight man-portablepassive defence anti-missile shield.

Originally posted by cool breeze:

Wicky,

Thanks for the help. Im not worried about having trouble getting money for development. I think that will be easy, not taking many years even if Im slow.

and If I did that show the bad guys would know it too.

Cheers,

Sam

[LongLeftFlank]

An Undertaking of Great Advantage, But No One To Know What It Is

[RichMac]

Originally posted by Nidan1:

Hey welcome to the Forum..looks like you picked the best thread to start in.

Thanks!

I've actually lurked here for a very long time and I go way back to CMBO.

I guess it just takes the crazies to drag me out of the closet. Did I just say out of the closet? Geez...

[Runyan99]

Originally posted by cool breeze:

I'm not saying any of this will happen, but I can only save so many lives with the millions I may get for this, so I need some kind of idea what the consequences may be.

My, you are so important. It must be so interesting being you right now.

[cool breeze]

Its always been interesting, now there is too much stress.

[Runyan99]

If I was you, I would go rent that movie where Keanu Reeves invents that engine that runs on water, and the government and oil companies try to kill him. That should help you plan for what comes next.