T72 survives direct hit from Javelin: deflected by MG!?

[Sivodsi]

I would have thought that javelin hits or near misses would result in serious damage to the tank.

As you can see, unlike the Abrams that survived, this javelin was plunging downwards on it.

I wonder if the tank emerging unscathed is something to do with the speed it was moving - it was going full tilt.

Edited the title of thread because this seems like a bug to me.

[ June 01, 2008, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Sivodsi ]

[slug88]

That's a TURMS-T, correct? I believe those have the Kontakt-5 ERA (or one generation below). Perhaps the missile scored a direct hit on one of the tiles and was defeated?

BTW I really doubt that a near-miss from a Javelin would do much if any damage to a tank, even a T-72.

[TheVulture]

Just to ask the stupid question... did it definitely survive? All I can tell from the screenshots you posted is that it kept moving - but a tank moving at high speed that is killed will coast for some distance before stopping.

If it did slu88's explanation may cover it - it appears to have hit the sloped front of the turret where some of the ERA tiles are, so it is certainly possible.

[SgtMuhammed]

If you look carefully you will notice that the crew had left a stack of pita on the top of the turret from breakfast. Pita bread is a well known defense against blast effects.

[Sivodsi]

did it definitely survive?

The J hit with 23 seconds to go, and it then turned onto a road. I think that qualifies it as a surviver.

I'm hoping it'll conk out next turn, but somehow I doubt it. If Scipo is around he could confirm whether it came through intact since that is who I am playing (OTOH he might choose to leave me guessing, being the savy player he is!).

[Scipio]

Originally posted by TheVulture:

Just to ask the stupid question... did it definitely survive? All I can tell from the screenshots you posted is that it kept moving - but a tank moving at high speed that is killed will coast for some distance before stopping.

If it did slu88's explanation may cover it - it appears to have hit the sloped front of the turret where some of the ERA tiles are, so it is certainly possible.

Yes, the tank definitely survived. I must know it, since I'm Sivodsi's opponent!

[Sivodsi]

Yes, the tank definitely survived. I must know it, since I'm Sivodsi's opponent! [smile]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

... see if he survives the next one...

[Flanker15]

It looks like it's going to hit one of the big ERA blocks on the front turret. If it hit there the T-72 could get off ok.

[Sivodsi]

It looks like it's going to hit one of the big ERA blocks on the front turret. If it hit there the T-72 could get off ok.

I just checked and it seems that the exact point of impact is where the commanders mg is.

Here it is plunging:

And a squillionth of a second later you can just see the explosion starting to blossom:

What do you think the chances are that it was deflected by the mg?

This is looking a little like a black six legged critter thing, unless anybody else can come up with a better explanation...

[Lethaface]

blind, never mind

[Flanker15]

Ahh well in that case the mg should be disabled. I don't know about the T-72 being damaged though? Could the MG take the brunt of the missile and then let space under it dissipate the shape charge?

I'm not sure how well CMx2 models shape charge.

For the record I've had a tank in the training mission survive a javelin this way too.

[securityguard]

I can't imagine a direct hit from a javelin at that angle, even if it hit the MG, would not do an ounce of damage. It had to have done something.

[Scipio]

Indeed the 12.7mm MG was destroyed, and a minor damaged on the tracks. Let's praise St. Charles of Moylan for precise damage modelling!

Sivosdi, I wonder that you haven't noticed that a second tank survived a Javelin in the same turn, too.

[Lee]

That's quite interesting, even the machine gun being in the way is factored into the missile hit, very impressive! Although, one has to wonder from the hit location how in the world a track on the tank would be hurt, hmm...

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[SlapHappy]

That should probably have been a dead tank, IMO.

[Pandur]

I think it is almost thrown in at random as a cherry on top of most damage. I see it in many many instances where I wouldn't expect it.

thats right, i think that too.

[ChrisND]

The next generation of T-72s are going to sport two dozen MGs on their turret top as Javelin defense.

[Lee]

Well, if the track damage thing is indeed thrown in at random, hopefully this will be adjusted in one of the upcoming patches. It would be a lot better to have tracks only be vulnerable to damage if a hit takes places near one of them on the tank. Or if a bomb were to land near the side of the tank (but not too close to take it out), and the blast hit the tracks pretty hard. Stuff like that.

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Adam1:

As for track damage, I think it is almost thrown in at random as a cherry on top of most damage. I see it in many many instances where I wouldn't expect it.

Consolation prize.

"Ooh, sorry you didn't get the kill and now you are going to die when that tank returns fire, but at least you die assured that the crew will have to break tracks after this."

[FAI]

Originally posted by Scipio:

Yes, the tank definitely survived. I must know it, since I'm Sivodsi's opponent!

You have a good karma, dude.. :eek:

[Sivodsi]

The other non-killing hit I thought 'fair enough': as you can see from the angle it was more like a

'glancing blow' directly on the ERA pad.

[John Kettler]

Sivodsi,

While shaped charge warheads today are much nastier than in the 1967 War, I can tell you, having seen the tank damage assessments from same, that such AFV excrescences as MGs, headlight guards, lifting eyes, brackets and similar can and do wreak havoc on HEAT performance via premature detonation, jet disruption, jet deflection and so forth, often saving the tank in the process. It appears to me that this is exactly what happened here. I consider this outcome to be well within the realm of the possible and very good weapon/target interaction modeling on the part of

Charles. Hats off to him, and thanks for sharing this grog experience with us!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Splinty]

Although an MG hit is probably a 1 in a million shot, a 12.7 mm HMG is a pretty solid piece of metal. It could very well dissipate the shaped-charge effect enough to avoid a killing shot.