Future Weapons

[OG_Gleep]

I just watched a couple episodes of Future Weapons on the military channel, and they had some awesome fire arms. Sine this is set in the near future is there any chance we will see new (future) weapons?

Weapons like the:

AA12 Automatic Shotgun

This thing is awesome. Can fire all the normal shotugn ammo, plus HE, Frag, and delayed blast rounds. New mechanics reduce recoil allowing it to fire at full auto (think it was 300 rounds per minute) and stay on target. Also they mounted 2 remote controled guns on a vehicle, allowing you to fire two seperate rounds (non leathal and very very leathal). You have to see the grenade ammo. Looks like a regular shell, but when the round comes out, it looks like a little torpedo, with stablizer fins. Really cool.

Kryss

I wish I could find something about this weapon online, but the links I did have were copies of the show, and were removed due to some kind of violation.

Anyhow, its a total redesign of the SMG. It has a recoil system that takes the force from the bullet and sends it down away from the shooter, instead of back into his shoulder and that also eliminates muzzle climb. Very cool gun.

These two are probably much more feasible:

AT-4 Redesign Anti-Structre Tandem

Swiss modified the AT4, and put Saltwater? at the end, which absorbs the shockwave expended from the back when firing it. This allows the shooter to fire indoors and not die.

7.62 LMG - I don't know the exact designation, but its a 7.62 version of the gun that the US inf squads carry(M249). Mack said special forces are using it for the extra stopping power. I can't find a link for it unfotunatley but they did a test using thick plexiglass. The M249 penetrated two blocks but failed to knock them over. The 7.62 penetrated deeper, but knocked the entire row down sending the end ones flying off the table. It was an impressive demonstration. If someone knows the actual name of the gun I might be able to find the clip.

There are many many more, this show has been going on for 3 seasons and counting. It would be cool to be able to see some of these in action.

[OG_Gleep]

Ah ha. Found it.

Kryss Sub Machine Gun

Forgot to mention, it uses a .45 round. .45 + little to no recoil = tango down.

[slug88]

Looked like a fair amount of recoil to me. And not too tight a pattern when he was shooting at the car.

[abneo3sierra]

Extremely impressive. Would be interesting to see outside of the "setup" situation though. But yes, would be worth a look.

[flamingknives]

Are any of them likely to be adopted by the US Army in the near future?

The Kriss, in .45, is not especially likely, as pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. As you can get an M4 that does almost exactly the same job as the Kriss, but better, there would no sense to it.

The AA-12 isn't a new weapon. The design goes back to the '70s. Is it good enough to justify replacing a soldier's rifle? There's the issue of range lost - the HE round goes further, but the Hague convention would probably have something to say about its use on human targets.

The AT4 CS (Confined Spaces) is already in service with the British Army - Don't know if the US Army has it yet, but they've got lots of normal AT4 to use up first.

A 7.62mm machine gun - the M240 fits the bill, but it's a bit heavier than the Minimi in 7.62mm so it's used in more of a supporting role.

[YankeeDog]

Yes, the US Army has the AT4 CS. Has for quite a while now.

Kriss nad AA-12 are the kind of things that Special Forces might use, but not really appropriate for main-line infantry.

Cheers,

YD

[permanent666]

this show is so pathetic - i don't like it very much because they do not show any drawbacks of the presented weapon-systems. it seems to be mere promotion

but it is interesting to hear, that one cannot use e.g. rpgs inside buildings.

why is it possible to use them inside buildings in cmsf?

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by permanent666:

this show is so pathetic - i don't like it very much because they do not show any drawbacks of the presented weapon-systems. it seems to be mere promotion

but it is interesting to hear, that one cannot use e.g. rpgs inside buildings.

why is it possible to use them inside buildings in cmsf?

Because this isn't 100% accurate.

Some RPG-type weapons are more usable in confined spaces than others. AIUI, the AT4 (non-CS) is particularly bad because it's really a recoilless rifle design. The RPG-7 type weapons aren't as bad, because they use a weaker starter charge to push the projectile a little ways out, at which point the main motor kicks in.

Somewhere around I remember finding a website with more details about this kind of thing. Too lazy to find it ATM, though. Google is your friend.

Cheers,

YD

[flamingknives]

There are some weapons that it would be a really bad idea to fire indoors.

Key among these are the US M141 SMAW-D, the USMC SMAW, the British LAW80 and the Russian RPG-29. Firing these inside, apart from the largest rooms, would have very adverse affects to your short-term health.

The LAW80, in particular, is likened to being punched all over and that's firing it in the open. The RPG-29, with the same launch mechanism but a larger and heavier projectile.

[OG_Gleep]

Originally posted by Adam1:

That's bogus, they can be used inside buildings, it helps to have an open doorway to the outside and a minimum volume of space in the room. The show is mere promotion, often not even really informative but misleading altogether. Bad show.

Its pretty much like preview, not a review. I am sure we are all familiar with games, which is why I used that reference.

Its informative to me. I am not in the military or a gun nut, so the only place I will see weapons is on a TV show like this.

Getting to see these weapons in action is pretty cool imho. Watching that shotgun in action made my day. But to me, I thought of how cool these weapons would be in a game. As for this game, ya they would be more suited to Special forces. Is there a chance we will see SF at some point?

[Combatintman]

That Kriss thing - an SMG. We've got past that - its a bit like going on about WW2 on this forum. Old news and pointless.

[tiny_tanker]

Lots of the show seems to be hype and gee whiz type stuff. But they've shown some good usable technology too, like the MP-7, HK 416, Mgapul Masada, M-110. Even though it was pretty much a promotional video for the weapons it was also fairly informative. They just did a great episode about new Israeli tech looking a new SAM systems using air to air missiles, and there anti RPG/ATGM missile systems. Not the best show but its cool to see the tech in action.

[jBrereton]

Eugh, FutureWeapons.

Shows a whole range of 'new' kit, all in a completely perfect environment used essentially by those who are expert with the technology to to either inventing it or having gone through most of the testing process.

Oh and as to the whole MP-7 thing : Why bother? There are a whole bunch of better PDWs already out there (the MP5K strikes me as a good one, as does the P-90). The round is too small, and the practical use of a PDW against a foe you're assuming to be armoured is somewhat limited.

If they're wearing Kevlar, they're probably going to be pretty well equipped in other means too, let's be honest.

As to the Kryss - how is using recoil and making it go downwards anything new? Never heard of a Kutts Compensator or something?

And the 7.62mm LMG - I'm sure the UK could sell you guys on some GPMGs, we've got a whole bunch of them around and are starting to redistribute them to our regulars, as well as the Royal Marines and various special forces (neither of whom really gave them up).

[jBrereton]

Just to add something regarding the AA12 -

The old 20 round drums magazines for the weapon weighed about 2kg with normal shot (4 and a bit pounds). You're a stronger man than I if you want to carry a minute's worth of ammunition to show off, particularly if you're up for the fancier Frag-12 type affairs, as well as all of your other gear you'll need on the battlefield.

[Smaragdadler]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust_3 :

"...The Panzerfaust 3 consists of a disposable launcher tube holding the projectile and a reusable firing and sighting unit. The projectile consists of a shaped-charge warhead filled with Amatol/Syndril and a shaft including the propulsion unit.

The Panzerfaust 3 can be fired from enclosed spaces since it doesn't have a too dangerous a backblast; The rear of the tube, filled with plastic granulate, minimizes the blast effect by the so-called recoilless countermass principle. The booster propellant for the projectile in its tube is ignited by a bolt via a spring mechanism. Once ejected, the rocket motor is ignited.

As safety precautions, the built-in fuse for the warhead is released by a safety mechanism. This arms the warhead after a flight distance of approximately five meters, keeping the crew safe after firing. Once armed, the warhead can explode when it hits a solid object, or when the rocket's propellant runs out. This safeguards against live ammo staying around and causing hazards to all in the future..."

[Smaragdadler]

double post deleted

[flamingknives]

The MP7 has its benefits, mainly that it's not much larger than a pistol and as such can be carried more easily than the other PDWs.

The P90 isn't much smaller than a carbine, and the MP5k fires the 9mm parabellum round that would have a hard time getting though any kind of body armour. If you can have a carbine, you might as well have one, as a rifle is always substantially more powerful than what is essentially a pistol round.

[OG_Gleep]

Originally posted by jBrereton:

[QB]

As to the Kryss - how is using recoil and making it go downwards anything new? Never heard of a Kutts Compensator or something?

/QB]

Lol no I haven't. I was basically parroting what I heard on the show.

[Smaragdadler]

Good article about PDWs:

-> http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PDWs.htm

[jBrereton]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

The MP7 has its benefits, mainly that it's not much larger than a pistol and as such can be carried more easily than the other PDWs.

The P90 isn't much smaller than a carbine, and the MP5k fires the 9mm parabellum round that would have a hard time getting though any kind of body armour. If you can have a carbine, you might as well have one, as a rifle is always substantially more powerful than what is essentially a pistol round.

I'm still very much of the opinion that if your would-be killers are coming at you with body armour on, you're most likely done for, seeing as they're not going to be poorly equipped by any means.

Originally posted by OG_Gleep:

Lol no I haven't. I was basically parroting what I heard on the show.

OK, actually called a Cutts Compensator, messed up on the C/K thing there, but basically it funnelled the gasses causing recoil up and to the right (IIRC) which conversely... well... compensated for the recoil in much the same system as this new gun does.