Molotov Cocktail Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 CMx2 game about Nato vs Warsaw Pact 1980's in Europe? Good idea or not? Not good because it did not happen? and Period of cold war has passed? Soviets and and allies like East Germany's (GDR) NVA against US, West Germany's (FRG) Bundeswehr , Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, France, UK in Germany. Cold War turns hot in Europe. I think there have been discussion about this before but I did not bother to search for those threads How many support this idea? [ December 19, 2006, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Molotov Cocktail ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kineas Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Me definitely. I think many of us dream about a huge, hypothetical armor clash in that era. I'm afraid we have to wait for a very long time. But hopefully it will be released before the Space Lobsters of Doom version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I'd love to see it, but I understand why BFC said no already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I was tossing around some ideas with the Modern ASL group I belong to (it is currently in development). The Canadian Army issued a manual in the 1970s called FIRST CLASH that had tons of great info on a hypothetical battle between a Soviet mech brigade and a Canadian mech brigade, including topo maps, order of battle, and everything you would need to replicate a series of scenarios or even a campaign. Would be natural fodder for a tactical game of some kind. But I'd rather see Second World War subjects first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undead reindeer cavalry Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 i'd love it as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 As an aside, I'm heading up a mod team for Armed Assault that takes place in Germany in '85. http://g85.combataddons.net/ Not quite CM, but hopefully will be just as nifty when its done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Wildman Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Absolutly, This is one area that really hasn't seen alot of work in the gaming department. True test of Quantity vs quality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Whenever this idea has been brought up before they've immediately shot it down, though I could never understand why. It makes me wonder, they've got a lot of gaming irons in the fire these days. I wonder if at some point we're perhaps going to see "Grognards 2; Fulda Gap 1983", or some-such title. Maybe one of the other developers affiliated with BFC has dibs on the theatre. Or maybe from a list of 15 prospective projects that comes out number nine - which means by the time they get to it the ice caps would have melted and the PC concept would've become obsolete. We'll all have embedded chips in our heads by then! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Would I prefer a 1980s Fulda Gap scenario over the happy adventures of a Stryker brigade in Syria? You bet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Originally posted by ParaBellum: Would I prefer a 1980s Fulda Gap scenario over the happy adventures of a Stryker brigade in Syria? You bet. CMSF may mean nice defense contract for Battlefront which would mean more resources for more new games for every one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronic Max Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Whenever this idea has been brought up before they've immediately shot it down, though I could never understand why.ISTR that the reason for rejection has essentially been that there isn't enough market for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Moronic Max, ISTR that the reason for rejection has essentially been that there isn't enough market for it.Compared to the other markets we've alread announced, you bet. Very small. The other reason is that Charles and I don't have much interest in alternate history. A big clash between NATO and the Warsaw Pact didn't happen, obviously. Therefore our interest in toiling away, day after day for months, is just not there. And if Charles and I aren't psyched to do it, then it's dead right there. We've got enough stuff to last us the next 20 years that we're very excited to do, so why would we want to delay any of that for sokmething we're not interested in doing and will be a commercial flop? We might be crazy, but we ain't stupid Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Cocktail Posted December 20, 2006 Author Share Posted December 20, 2006 would we want to delay any of that for sokmething we're not interested in doing and will be a commercial flop? That is good reason not to do it. But my "commercial wisdom" says that there is always room for WW II game, because that subject has been hugely popular in every country (in Finland also with or without finns ). But I will definitely buy this CMSF when it is released. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Pusher Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 While I accept the reasons Steve gave above, I would personally go for this big time. Having grown up almost literally in the shadow of the 'iron curtain' during the 70s and 80s I remember the palpable fear that the Soviet Pact would invade and the situation would rapidly escalate to global nuclear war to 'save' us from communism. I think there would be a lot of Europeans now in their 30-40s who would be very excited by this. Although probably a non-starter, much has been said about how flexible the 'new' engine will be. If Steve & Charles are not interested, maybe a viable group of those that ARE interested could be formed to do the bulk of the work 'under license'. Just a thought.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kineas Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The CMx2 engine will not be truly moddable, and I guess BFC doesn't really want to sell the source code under a license even for CMx1. It would be nice, but my main concern is whether the market is strong enough for two similar games (CMx2:WW2 and a Cold War release). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Ruddy Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 CMx2 game about Nato vs Warsaw Pact 1980's in Europe? I probably wouldn't buy CMx2 1980s. Many moons ago I tried Steel Panthers II. Didn't like it. Can't explain why. Continued playing Steel Panthers instead. I have one squad level wargame set in the 1980s at around CMx2 level ( Fire Team ) and while the gameplay is interesting, I still (for whatever reason) prefer WWII. I honestly don't know why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I expect most of the excitement regarding CMx2 will be coming from the new engine and not from the new hardware (i.e., tanks, PGM, ATGM, assault rifles ...). The latter, I think, with their partial `instant kill' capability do not lend themselves to more exciting gameplay; I am thinking of the cool bouncing shells of CMx1, that add so much suspense! But the new capabilities of the engine will shine in any scenario, even in the Syrian one (is anybody actually excited about invading Syria?!?!)! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Yeah, we aren't licensing our code for practical reasons more than anything. With licensing comes a great deal of support headaches and major amounts of time. We're too small to be able to handle that. And yes, while the engine is quite modifiable, it has to be modified by us since there are no external tools. The amount of work to get all the models, animations, data, etc into the game is a lot of work that we don't see being worth it when we have so many other more enjoyable/profitable genres to pursue. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Wildman Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Oh it makes sense and if the period (or alternate history scenario) doesn't give you a woody then I fully support your decision. Of course, the internet gives me the right to bitch and complain anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cairns Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I am for history as opposed to nostalgia, which is what we are actually talking about here. Vietnam or Korea are history with a wealth of actual combat material to draw from. I suspect that for the average person on this forum, although it ranges from 15 to 55, will be 25 to 4. So go back an average of 15 to 25 years and we were kids in the cold war and when we got the war game bug, M-60's and T-62's were the "bees knees". Steves, right ( and I haven't been saying that a lot recently),this isn't really a good basis for a game either historically or commercially. It only gets high marks here because when most of us were in our formative years thats the war we thought ( and fought) about, or might even have been in, which tends to focus the mind and stick in it. So in the words of the ubiquitious traffic cop.... "Move along folks, there's nothing to see here". I am off to Canada for thee weeks tommorrow so you will be free of me for a while, which should make most of your Christmas' that bit happier. Peter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Originally posted by Rollstoy: I expect most of the excitement regarding CMx2 will be coming from the new engine and not from the new hardware (i.e., tanks, PGM, ATGM, assault rifles ...). The latter, I think, with their partial `instant kill' capability do not lend themselves to more exciting gameplay; I am thinking of the cool bouncing shells of CMx1, that add so much suspense! This is one of my concerns with CMx2 along with the issue of scale. The game is smaller scale than CMx1 in terms of the typical number of units but larger in terms of the effective kill ranges of much of the weaponary. The WW2 battlefield seems better integrated in that sense. Still, I will pay my money to give it a go. I would also, however, have preferred to see a fictional game based on a post WW2 conflict between US/Europe and the Soviets/Warsaw Pact. Set it in the 1950's and you could have had Korea moddable for it as well easily enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halberdiers Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I like to see a CMX2:Guerrilla Warfare. We can found hundreds of fierce battles around the world and along XXs century! [ December 20, 2006, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Halberdiers ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Ruddy Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Originally posted by SteveS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rollstoy: I expect most of the excitement regarding CMx2 will be coming from the new engine and not from the new hardware (i.e., tanks, PGM, ATGM, assault rifles ...). The latter, I think, with their partial `instant kill' capability do not lend themselves to more exciting gameplay; I am thinking of the cool bouncing shells of CMx1, that add so much suspense! This is one of my concerns with CMx2 along with the issue of scale. The game is smaller scale than CMx1 in terms of the typical number of units but larger in terms of the effective kill ranges of much of the weaponary. The WW2 battlefield seems better integrated in that sense. Still, I will pay my money to give it a go. I would also, however, have preferred to see a fictional game based on a post WW2 conflict between US/Europe and the Soviets/Warsaw Pact. Set it in the 1950's and you could have had Korea moddable for it as well easily enough. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfish Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 I'd like to see a 1946 module someday. I really want a game that'll give me an American T29, T30 or T34 heavy tank. 1200 were ordered before the war ended, and only five were ever built. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 Originally posted by fytinghellfish: I'd like to see a 1946 module someday. I really want a game that'll give me an American T29, T30 or T34 heavy tank. 1200 were ordered before the war ended, and only five were ever built. I'd also like to see a 1946 Module. Patton vs. Zhukov, and the Maus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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