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I don't care whether you make disparaging remarks about Mohammed or not.

People have sigs for all sorts of reasons.

Perhaps if you were a polite sort of person you might have messaged me off-line to ask me why I have mine.

Have a nice day.

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Perhaps if you were a polite sort of person you might have messaged me off-line to ask me why I have mine.

I am typically polite. Except when I come across islamist propaganda in a place where it doesn't belong. Regardless of your reasons, it is totally offensive and should be removed.

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Rich,

There is a difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism.

There is a difference between Christianity and Christian fundamentalism.

Some Islamic fundamentalists have declared jihad and are at war with America. They are only a fraction of muslims and do not represent Islam.

Some Chritian fundamentalists (i.e. the KKK) have declared their opposition to many Americans (i.e. people of color). They are only a fraction of christians and do not represent Chritianity.

Quoting the Q'ran is no more propoganda than quoting the bible. Both have equal moral authority.

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Rich,

You are out of line here. First its obvious he is pointing out the contridiction that all religions have. All humans are contridictory too so since religion is made up of humans this is bound to happen dont you think.

And hes had it for a long time and if battlefront doesnt have a problem with it then theres nothing we can do.

Personally I would thing he'd have a tagline like "Sheep, not just for eating anymore!" :D

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I don't believe I'm out of line. Last night was the first time I ever saw the sig. There was nothing to indicate that it was anything other than what it said. You say it was obvious but not at all to me. I don't know Stalin's Organist or anything about him. His comments came across as sincere. But if you folks, who obviously know him, say otherwise then I'll go along.

Islam is trying its very best to finish what Hitler started. When I see something that looks like Islamist propaganda, I will speak out. Since that doesn't appear to be the case here, I retract what I said.

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Originally posted by rich12545:

Islam is trying its very best to finish what Hitler started.

Ummm, that's like saying that Christianity is trying its very best to finish what Hitler started just because the Aryan Nation is composed of fundamentalist christians. Fundamentalists of any religion don't reflect the entire religion. Please use the terms "radical Islamic fundamentalists" or "Islamofascists." I find your generalizations to all of Islam extremely offensive.
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You might find it offensive but it's accurate. Go into mosques around the world and you'll find the imams spouting hate. Particularly against Israel and Jews.

When there is violence committed by the few, how many islamic leaders, religious or otherwise, do you find condeming that violence. How many muslims have come out against the suicide bombers in Israel? The silence is deafening.

Where are the muslims who are against jihad and the terrorism? Post some quotes from muslim leaders that are against the terrorism in Israel. Post quotes from imams anywhere who recognize Israel's right to exist and who don't advocate its destruction. And if you're not against it, then you support it. It's not just a few radicals trying to finish what Hitler started. With very few exceptions, it's islam.

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Originally posted by rich12545:

Where are the muslims who are against jihad and the terrorism?

You are ignorant. You could have easily found many, many muslims who are against jihad if you had made the effort to look for them. But you didn't look -- you assumed you had a full grasp of the situation. Discrimination is ugliness, but it's hard to look in the mirror and really see yourself.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

I think you should read every single link listed and then we'll talk. If you are willing to admit you are wrong to generalize all of Islam, we can make some progress together. If you persist in this gross generalization, your self righteousness is blinding you.

"Certainty is the enemy of wisdom." - Holocaust Survivor

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Originally posted by Sixxkiller:

Personally I would thing he'd have a tagline like "Sheep, not just for eating anymore!" :D

Personally I'm not surprised you would think that! ;)tongue.gif
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Originally posted by rich12545:

Perhaps if you were a polite sort of person you might have messaged me off-line to ask me why I have mine.

I am typically polite.

Not to me you are not.

Except when I come across islamist propaganda in a place where it doesn't belong. Regardless of your reasons, it is totally offensive and should be removed.
I'm not Moslem, so it cannot possibly be Islamist propaganda, but as a point of interest is there any sort of propaganda you find acceptable?

Would a sig line condeming NK's nuclear test be OK? supporting the LAbour Party? A line from Mein Kamf? the Republican election manifesto? Something from Karl Marx perhaps? A humourous quote from a fellow message-boarder?

It's not totally offensive - I don't find it offensive at all - hence it immediately fails to live up to "totally".

Is there any particular reason I should consider your opinion more important than mine, or that of about a billion Moslems who presumably would think the quotes are OK (I'm just guessing at the numbers adn that they wouldn't object - but I think I'm on fairly safe ground)? that billion also contradicts your "totally" assessment by just a bit.....

I'm sorry your sense of irony is limited, but that is your problem, not mine.

[ October 10, 2006, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]

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You are ignorant

If all you have is personal attacks then take your crap elsewhere.

I looked through your list of quotes. Didn't find a single one - not even one, though I didn't read every word from every quote - where muslims acknowledge Israel's right to exist or condemn the palestinian suicide terrorist bombers.

The site looked like it was put up by islamists to try and show how compassionate they are. Reminds me of palestinians dancing in the streets after 9/11. And then saying sorry.

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Well Rich, gotta tell you that you seem rather angry about this subject. I do not know why but it seems you watch a lot of TV if you think every Muslim hates us. Fact is that most Muslims dont hate us yet.

As for Muslim leaders not decrying the violence, well some have. Most dont because even if they dont hate the US, whats the point of trying to deal with fanatics that wouldnt listen anyway? But here in the USA, people get killed everyday and I hardly ever see leaders ever do anything but enact tougher laws which do nothing to stop the violence. I believe little would change if the Muslim leaders said anything, same as here.

I figure all in all I have spent over 10% of my life in one Muslim country or another and I hated being there and I could tell those who hated us being there, and even most of those people didnt try any violence on us. But if you have any solutions let me know eh?

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I'm sorry your sense of irony is limited, but that is your problem, not mine.

As you might have read by now, others (who know you better than I) have pointed out that your sig is something other that what it looked like at face value. I've taken their word that they know you well enough and have retracted my statement about your sig. OK?

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Rich,

In all sincerity I did not mean to suggest my comment about your ignorance was personal. I meant it only as a statement of fact.

Here are the facts:

You wrote, "When there is violence committed by the few, how many islamic leaders, religious or otherwise, do you find condeming that violence."

In the same post, you wrote, "Where are the muslims who are against jihad and the terrorism?"

In less than five minutes of searching the web, I found hundreds of quotes condemning the violence and gave you names of muslims who are against jihad and the terrorism. Here is one quote from the Council on American-Islamic Relations, "American Muslims unequivocally condemn these vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism... May we all stand together through these difficult times to promote peace and love over violence and hate."

I think I have demonstrated that the two statements you made were factually ignorant. It is not a personal attack. I have shown that your perception that if someone is a follower of Islam that means they support jihad and terrorism is false. You thought you knew something. I demonstrated you did not. Therefore, you were ignorant about that particular issue. I'm sure you know a great many other things, but in this case, I just can't see how you can disagree with me that you *were* ignorant. Now if you can't reply to these facts, then it's actually you who should take your crap elsewhere.

My position is very simple. There is a certain segment of every major religion that supports violence. This is the radical fundamentalist segment. All I have asked of you is that you recognize that fundamentalists of any religion don't reflect the entire religion. Please use the terms "radical Islamic fundamentalists" or "Islamofascists." You responded to my request that you were sorry to offend me, but you believe that lumping all Muslims together is accurate. In your mind, to follow Islam means to support jihad and terrorism. It is pure bigotry - and I don't mean that as a person attack I mean it literally.

Respectfully,

Inigo

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Inigo Montoya,

I guess I'm sick of the terrorism, I'm sick of the violence over nothing (like a few cartoons), I'm sick of the hate that emanates from muslims and I'm sick of the support they get from the huge majority so it seems like they're all jihadists. Perhaps there are a few who aren't.

Millions and millions of muslims are totally dedicated to Israel's destruction. And of all the quotes you provided, I didn't see one to the contrary.

Rich

Well Rich, gotta tell you that you seem rather angry about this subject. I do not know why but it seems you watch a lot of TV if you think every Muslim hates us. Fact is that most Muslims dont hate us yet.

Sixxkiller,

Yes, I am rather angry about this subject. And it has nothing to do with tv since I rarely watch it. It has to do with muslim behavior. Look at the middle east. Look at the terrorism Israel puts up with every single day. If the US had neighbors like that, what would we do?

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Originally posted by rich12545:

Inigo Montoya,

I guess I'm sick of the terrorism, I'm sick of the violence over nothing (like a few cartoons), I'm sick of the hate that emanates from muslims and I'm sick of the support they get from the huge majority so it seems like they're all jihadists. Perhaps there are a few who aren't.

Millions and millions of muslims are totally dedicated to Israel's destruction. And of all the quotes you provided, I didn't see one to the contrary.

Rich

Yeah, I hear you, my friend. I'm totally with you on those two points - there are too many Muslims filled with hate/supporting violence and it seems like the majority of followers of Islam advocate the destruction of Israel. It's not right and makes our world much more dangerous. It's funny because Stalin's quote is actually pointing out that the Q'Ran commands the opposite views: Submit, seek peace, accept differences, allow others to have their faith. There are too many hypocrites...
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Q'Ran commands the opposite views: Submit, seek peace, accept differences, allow others to have their faith.

Yes, but just like the Bible, it has commands that say exactly the opposite. Things like kill all infidels, etc. That way everyone can pick and choose whichever he wants.

Personally, I think all religions are mostly myths and fairy tails. It's too bad they dominate so many people's lives instead of simply existing as some sort of moral guide.

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I couldn't agree more - let's form an aetheist/agnostic support group... ;)

But anyway - religon is a topic for the egeneral forum, not here.....

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