TheHumanMage Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 The problem you all seem to have is that non of you can understand this : The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources Now the problem that sixxkiller is that he then compares losses between planes and says ooooo but the Luftwaffe inlicted more casulties therefore the pilots must be better trained The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources If I am driveing a car that costs 10 times less then another person and I can keep out with that person but still fall a bit behind that does not MAKE him a better driver it is just because his car cost 10 times more! The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources You can not compare a formula 1 car with a beat up pinto but this is exactly what Sixxkiller is doing The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources Sixxkiller can not understand that there comes a time and a place when it is better to build a new item then contiune to improve an item The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a palane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources Sooner or later it become more economicall to just build a new one then to improve The Soviets understod this and that is why even though they had much less natural resources and much smaller labour force were able to build more items. The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivven_darke Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Aah, I remember my good old pen and paper roleplaying time. We always kept saying "kill the mage first". Strange that I remember now, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iplaygames2 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'd be careful saying something like "the prolbem you ALL seem to have is..." That's quite the case of lumping all of the eggs (and other various foods that reside on these forums) into one basket. I won't be lumped, dammit! I won't be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Ok ALL excpet iplaygames2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 The German planes cost up to 10 times as much to build as the Soviet planes If a plane costs 10 times as more to build then it should inflict 10 times as many casulties otherwise it is a waste of resources sure - that's basic. I dont' think anyone actually has a problem with that concept. so what? How is it relevant to DiF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 It is this bull**** about the Soviets being "Numerous" which is complete BS, the Soviets had less natural resources 5 times less then the Germans But built more things The Germans chose to build high cost items and the Soviets chose to build low cost items Then the conclusion all you guys do is that the germans were better because they managed to inflict a bit more casulties with their many times more expensive items. But what you fail to see is that they did not manage to inflict as many casulties compare to how much was spent on each item The Germans wasted resources and Soviets did not Which is complete BS. The germans had 5 times more natural resources and built things many times more expensive the the Soviets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred19 Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 God is this boring. Could somebody please stop this crap? Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Originally posted by TheHumanMage: It is this bull**** about the Soviets being "Numerous" which is complete BS, the Soviets had less natural resources 5 times less then the Germans But built more things The Soviets built "more things" - so why should they not be more numerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Numerous beeing that they built more thing because they had more resources which is wrong Numerous beeing that they had limtless resources in men and material which is wrong Numerous beeing huge masses of tanks blundering about the battlefield in columns of bunches or herd-like formations until they either roll over the opposition by sheer weight of metal or are shot up by smaller, expertly manoeuvring westerners. Which is complete BS The Germans had 5 times as many resources and twice the labour and chose to build high cost items, the germans wasted resources the Soviets did not And dont forget that the Axis had more soldiers deployed then the Soviets untill 1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Numerous beeing that they built more thing because they had more resources which is wrong Numerous beeing that they had limtless resources in men and material which is wrong No - numerous means none of these things. numerous means only numbers - it has nothing to do with how resources are spent to get those numbers. When teh campaign intro's say the soviets weer "numerous" the ONLY thing they mean ifs that there were lots of them. Are you now accepting that that is true? I don't think anyone has said the sov's had limiteless resources. they certainly had more manpower to call on, and more seem to have served - and more were killed or captured of course. I have not seen anyone say that they were limitless tho. the Soviets had more oil - oil is THE critical resource of WW2 - no-one was particularly short of iron or aluminium or coal - but what is the use of iron if you do not have enough oil to fuel your tanks or U-boats? Heavy artillery is quite slow in horse draught so you need tractors, and your motorised and armoured infantry for blitzkrieg need a fair bit of it, as does your airforce - none of these can use coal....unless you make it into oil!! I have seen no references to anyone blundering about anywhere in columns - certainly there weer some very poorly commanded actions on the part of the Soviets in 1941, but people have often stated that they greatly improved their tactics and abilities throughout the war. Even by your own figures the Germans did NOT have "5 times teh resources" - oil alone stops that from being true. If you want analysis of Soviet tactics and strategy on land then I suggest you look up JasonC's posts on the CMBB forum - this is not the place for it. and if they did have a lot more coal and iron and aluminium then as you say they used it poorly - again.....so what is your point? Is it solely that the Soviets did not have moer coal, iron ore and aluminium and slave labourers? If so then I'm afraid that I cannot get excited about that....whooppeee do.....you've done a really BAD job of explaining that!! [ September 28, 2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Inigo Montoya and Zanadu both say they had limitless men and material Zanadu says and belives that for every 1 German dead 10 Soviets died. The euro axis lost 5.5 soldiers on the eastern front this would mean according to Zanadu that 55 million Soviet Soldiers died This concept of them beeing numerous is so cemented into peoples mind that people belive it to be true Soviet tanks went on Disel, the Germans got alot of oil from romania and captured parts of the Soviet Union I bet you that the Soviets would have been many times more happy if they would have had 5 times more Iron Aluminium and Coal then the Germans. No the Germans did have 5 times more in resources except oil Since you like wiki so much check out this The "eastern front" article about ww2 and scroll down to industrial production Scroll down to industrial Production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Perhaps they did - they are fools in that respect then - I have never said it so please do not use that argument against me!! I am perfectly aare of teh production figures in Wiki - here they are sumamrised: Coal 1941-44 (there's no German figure for 45) German: 1321 million tons, Russia: 441 million tons - about 3:1 ratio Steel: German 113.3 million tons, Soviet 57.7 million - 2:1 ratio aluminium 1942-44 (no Sov figure for 41, no German figure for 45): Germany 759,300 tons, Soviet 196,700 tons - almost 4:1 ratio Oil: All axis (incl Italy to 1943, romania etc until surrender): 54.84 millino tons, Soviet Union: 110.6 million tons - almost 2:1 in favour of teh Soviet union. SO ******* WHAT??!!!! :mad: :mad: You keep stating things that are completely IRRELEVANT!!!! What has any of it got to do with Down in Flames?????????????? :confused: :confused: :confused: [ September 28, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Read the text next to industrial output Germany's raw material production was higher than the Soviets' and her labour force was far greater, but the Soviets were more efficient at using what resources they had and chose to build low-cost, low-maintenance vehicles whilst the Germans built high-cost, high-maintenance vehicles. It was because the germans had 5 times more resources that they were able to build more expensive items and get a beter hit ratio then the Soviets BUT the kill ratio did not match the production cost ratio My point beeing is that the Soviets were not numerous they just chose to build cheap items and that is why they were able to build more items What people do is compare Expensive German Items With Cheap Soviet Items and then say hey look the Germans inflicted a greater % of kills so they must be better, ignoreing the fact that German items cost many times more to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Except they didn't have 5 times the resources - the figures above give them 4:1 at most in some areas, and only 1:2 in oil....... and we've long ago agreed about efficiency.... Plus of course Germany was spending its resources Europe-wide - the Sov's only on the Eastern front....You are irrelevant and I'm finished with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: Perhaps they did - they are fools in that respect then - I have never said it so please do not use that argument against me!!Stalin, just wanted you to know that nowhere have Zanadu or I said any such thing. He cannot produce any quote where I said the Soviets had limitless men and material. It is an outright lie! I am a very logical person and would be quite circumspect in using the word "limitless" in any context. Please be very skeptical about anything TheHumanMage alleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 You are takeing for the Whole war look at the YEARS during 1942 and 43 the Germans and the Axis had 5 times more dont take the whole war The Soviets always keept 1.5 million men in the far east incase Japan wanted to attack But yes the Germans did spend on more fronts but During 1941-1942-1943 the vast majority went against the Soviets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: You are irrelevant and I'm finished with you.Hurrah! Now Stalin's Organist joins with Rune and myself in the group of people who have reached the conclusion TheHumanMage is hopeless and is best ignored. One by one our group grows stronger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHumanMage Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Inigo Montoya no one wants to join a coward. Inigo Montoya lets not forget for one second that I have proven you wrong in everything you have said and unlike you I actually back up everything I say with logic and sources You say the soviets had a limitless supply of men and material I have proven this wrong You say the Soviets were numerous I have proven this wrong The axis had more men untill 1943 why didnt the axis win when they had more men? And later why didnt they win when they had less men? Inigo Montoya lets not forget that everything you have ever done or everything you do or everything you ever will do in your life is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastakyle Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Originally posted by TheHumanMage: Inigo Montoya no one wants to join a coward. Inigo Montoya lets not forget for one second that I have proven you wrong in everything you have said and unlike you I actually back up everything I say with logic and sources You say the soviets had a limitless supply of men and material I have proven this wrong You say the Soviets were numerous I have proven this wrong The axis had more men untill 1943 why didnt the axis win when they had more men? And later why didnt they win when they had less men? Inigo Montoya lets not forget that everything you have ever done or everything you do or everything you ever will do in your life is wrong Out of curiosity, what in the **** is wrong with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Rastalyle, Out of curiosity, what in the fuck is wrong with you?I don't know, but you need to watch your language or you'll get the same thing that TheHumanMage is about to get... TheHumanMage, This is your one and only warning. Your behavior is deliberately intended to cause problems and give you some sort of platform to be abusive. This is called "Trolling", which would make you a Troll by definition. This sort of behavior is not allowed on this Forum and is against the rules you aggreed to when you signed up. So either be a LOT nicer (and I suggest relevant, but being ignorant and irrelevant isn't against the Forum rules) or you'll find yourself locked out from posting here. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Actually... having looked at TheHumanMage's posting history a bit closer... no warning is necessary. Dude, you are soooooooooo over the line I'm banning you right now. It's time for you to go and try to lower someone else's Forum's collective IQ. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Originally posted by Inigo Montoya: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: Perhaps they did - they are fools in that respect then - I have never said it so please do not use that argument against me!!Stalin, just wanted you to know that nowhere have Zanadu or I said any such thing. He cannot produce any quote where I said the Soviets had limitless men and material. It is an outright lie! I am a very logical person and would be quite circumspect in using the word "limitless" in any context. Please be very skeptical about anything TheHumanMage alleges. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Actually... having looked at TheHumanMage's posting history a bit closer... no warning is necessary. Dude, you are soooooooooo over the line I'm banning you right now. It's time for you to go and try to lower someone else's Forum's collective IQ. Steve Thank you, a thousand times, thank you!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanadu Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Well, I guess there's no point in my trying to explain the concept of 'debate' to Mage at this late date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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