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Disappointing Demo


NotreDame89

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Well, I have to say I seriously doubt I'll be buying this game based on what I've seen in the demo. For $35 there are much more involving, complex, graphically superior, and innovative games (both computer and board) to be had. I'm a huge fan of all incarnations of Combat Mission, but this game seems to fall way below the mark of Battlefront's quality standard.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

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I can understand if you don't feel the game is for you, but to complain that there are other "graphically superior" games available for $35 kind of misses the point. As does the comment that there are "more complex" games available as well. I don't find complexity to be an indicator of quality. More often it masks flawed design.

I can see how some people simply don't care for simple, quick-playing games, especially on the computer, since the expectation is that the designer will use the computer's natural strength of numerical stat-tracking to devise a computationally heavy game system. That's a reasonable expectation I guess. I, on the other hand, love the fact that someone has broken this expectation and brought boardgame-like play to the computer.

And lastly, the claim that there are "plenty" of "more innovative" boardgames out there, I have to disagree. I think the Down in Flames system was one of the most innovative game designs to appear in a long time, especially at a time (1993) that pre-dated the US popularity of Eurogames. I challenge you to name five more "innovative" board games than DiF.

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NotreDame89,

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I want to point out an important aspect of a game that you might have overlooked, playability.

By this I mean, how easy is it to sit down and feel like playing the game? As a game's complexity goes up, so does the effort factor of feeling like playing it.

Here's a good example, the original card games were published by GMT Games. A couple times a year GMT holds a get together for their players to come and play games. Usually around 50 to 100 people show up. Most of GMT's games are much more complex than DIF, and DIF is the favorite game of very few of those people. I would guess that 5% would say that DIF is their favorite. However, they pretty much all know how to play DIF, and play DIF while at the get together. I believe the reason is that it takes a fair amount of effort to start up a 6 hour complex game, but very little effort to start a 20 minute dogfight.

The 'effort factor' is also important in introducing a game to friends and significant others. With DIF, I have sat down with new people and taught them how to play in 15 minutes. Are they 'skilled' at that point? No, but they understand how the game works and are having fun. At that point, the new person can decide if they want to keep playing or not and build up skill.

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Originally posted by NotreDame89:

For $35 there are much more involving, complex, graphically superior, and innovative games (both computer and board) to be had.

Involving, perhaps. Though it can be quite a thrill to fly your favorite pilot without an Escape Death skill, knowing that you could lose him. And the campaigns can be real nailbiters, too.

Complex, for sure.

Graphically superior, most definitely.

Innovative. Not sure if I agree.

But what about fun? Are the other games as much fun as DIF?

Martin

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You have a right to your opinion, of course, but then I wasn't impressed with the T72 demo and also didn't buy the full game. But I know lots of people are having a lot of fun with that title. The world would be a dull place if we all liked the same things, wouldn't it?

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Maybe we can run the "Play While Drinking" optional rules past Martin to see if there are any legal issues.

I'm thinking it would be something like:

(1) Take one shot of your favorite beverage for each point of damage your Leader suffers.

(2) For each damage point suffered by your Wingman, your significant other or pet must down a shot.

(3) Each time you have an aircraft shot-down you must remove one piece of clothing.

Complexity?! Hah! We got drunken naked people!

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You forgot the requirement to take one shot of your favourite beverage in celebration of every hit you get on the other guy smile.gif

I just got the demo last night & played a few local games before finding I couldn't play the campaign for soem reason.

I thought it could do with a short tutorial on actual gameplay, but it didn't take long to get involved, and I soon found myself recruiting more pilots to take the load off my over-stressed "UK Pilot" who got shot down several times in a row before I got the hang of it.... smile.gif

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...jsu had three beers today so I´m going to write something.

...just a proposal to make the game a bit more interresting. Gameplay is very good, but I miss the overall feeling of beeing a pilot in the war. Mainly because you allways fight planes of different areas and nations.

There once was this poor flight sim called Luftwaffe Commander. The game was crap except for the campaigns. You started as a pilot in the spanish civil war and advanced through all theaters until the final battles over Germany.

Something like this would be great for DiF. You stick to a theater and only battle planes that have been there. If you have earned enough experience points you can go on to the next theater. ...of course, missions and enemys become more challenging over time....

So far we have to arrange such battles in the DiF lobby and there´s allways someone who joines with Japs when you wan´t to play the battle of britain...

Hope you understand what I wanted to say with this. ...it´s hard to articulate this in english.

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Skolman,

I like the idea of flying in a campaign and building up XP to go on to the next campaign.

We will put this on the list of future updates.

From what I remember, the Defant was supposed to look like a Spitfire, but had a backward facing turret behind the cockpit. The idea was when an enemy fighter tried to sneak up behind it, it would open fire.

What we could do in the game is to show Spitfire graphics for the first turn, then switch to Defiant graphics. This would keep the enemy player's wondering what they were attacking on that first turn.

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The Defiant looks a bit like a Hurricane.

It had a turret with 4 MG´s that could fire backwards and maybe to the sides (not sure abou it).

...and no forward firing ability. Would need some special rules indeed ?

...and for the campaigns: Maybe would need more planes for this idea ?

The mentioned game (Luftwaffe Commander) only showed the German side. Scenarios were set in Spain ,Belgium, France, England, Russia and Germany.

Would love to fly a squadron through this !

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You're right, it looks more like a Hurricane. No problem, we do what I wrote before, but with a Hurricane instead of the Spitfire.

We will need to give it a special Burst rating of "-", that way it won't gain bursts when Advantaged or Tailing. We would also give it a Gunner Burst rating of 2.

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sounds great ! will be a very strange plane to fight with !

...concerning the other thought, it was just an idea

of bringing more historical accuracy to the standard mode of play. Battling people all over the net and watching your pilots become aces is fine, I just miss the feeling that this is the 2nd world war and not some arcade game...

Unfortunately I am a bit busy at the moment ( I am moveing to a new appartement ) but if I have some time I might think of rules for a "pilot career" playing mode.

all the best

Skolman

PS: I visited your Web-page and watched the convention pictures. I think I should become a game-desinger myself ! All that babes.... :eek:

hot !

...and you should keep that beard Dan !

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The conventions are fun!

The babe photos all started as a joke, my wife Holly had asked what I did at conventions, so I took some babe photos as a joke. She took it well, and since then it has become an on-going family tradition.

The beard, however, did not go over so well. As soon as 7th Sea launched and the convention was over, she handed me a razor. smile.gif

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I had a Chardonnay once that was nothing like a Pinot Noir, so I didn't buy it because it sucked.

Plus, I'm a beer drinker.

Which reminds me of a story.

One time I took a tour of a brewery that makes my all-time favorite stout. I mean, I really love their stout!

They had a new "wheat" beer they were working on and I thought eh, what the hell, I'll try a free sample. I didn't realize that they made anything but stout.

Turns out that wheat isn't stout!

So I told them that there were alot of stouts out there that were better then that wheat beer, and that I was never going to buy their crappy wheat beer.

The End*

*all lies, and I'm a dick.

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