Can Minor Nations change sides or become Neutral?

[Edwin P.]

Can minor nations change sides in Sc2? or return to Neutrality?

Example 1: Finland initially joins the Axis. When Russia takes Warsaw it withdraws from the war and returns to neutrality or perhaps it joins the Allies.

Example 2: Spain joins the Axis. The Allies return and liberate France and the Low Countries. Can Spain return to Neutrality or perhaps join the Allies?

[John Hugo]

Great Idea!

[Exel]

I think this should be done with the diplomacy engine so that you could "negotiate" peace. Because of the limits of the engine it'd probably have to be a simple "white peace" option, but even as such it would be much better than just complete annexation.

[Edwin P.]

Exel, I like the idea of using the diplomacy engine to make peace with selected neutral nations.

In my view, this should possible if your side is winning and much harder to achieve if your side is losing.

Example: Russia might seek peace with Finland while it is fighting Germany or Germany might seek peace with Norway (to prevent the basing of Allied Air Units in that country).

[Exel]

I don't understand why it should be limited to pre-determined nations. Why couldn't you make peace with anyone you want to? Of course it would be much, much more unlikely to get a peace with another major, but it should be possible if the other side is losing enough (or the AI has beaten your ally enough and wants to concentrate on you). It's not like the WW2 was destined to be a total war from the start. It was not until 1943 that the Allied leaders decided that they'd accept nothing but unconditional surrender.

[Edwin P.]

I was thinking that Active nation Hungary, adjacent to Germany, would not make peace with Russia with Germany right next door.

[Exel]

Not if it was winning, but if it was about to collapse, why not? After all, that's what they did irl.

[Edwin P.]

Of course, if Germany was to collapse every ally would switch sides. The question what would trigger this in the game. Too easy and you could find implausible situations occuring all the time.

[Exel]

There should of course be a sub-AI for every nation that would determine how good or bad the war situation is looking from their perspective. I think such a system is required anyway for the diplomacy to work in any sensible manner.

[Edwin P.]

1. I would like to see Italian AI offer to surrender if Germany surrenders. The Allied player should have the right to accept or reject this surrender.

2. I would also like to see the USA AI offer peace to the Axis if the UK and Russia are defeated. If this is rejected I would suggest that the USA transfers its pacific fleet to the Atlantic and that its production increases.

[Exel]

I agree, but in my opinion it shouldn't be done with pre-scripted events but instead with a dynamic diplomacy AI that would assess its situation constantly and act accordingly. That way, with Edwin's examples, if Germany fell Italy wouldn't automatically offer surrender if it felt strong, and USA might consider peace if it saw that it had no chance to defeat the Axis alone.