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Any way for the Axis to win without sealion or a sealion or a sealion?

seriously what are the options anymore for the axis?

- subwar : Forget it, I only say tech restrictions

- Rusia? Many good ideas in the patch . Troops can entrench, defense of armies is higher. But right in Jan 1942 troops worth half of the German army appear. They will be lucky if they conquered until then the frontier cities of Rusia.

- Turkey: no longer an option

- USA : Well seems now some ghost amies ... spirits of the indian get armed if you invade their turf. Besides now they get an HQ and a fighter + 1 research chit more or less 750MP

The Axis: One HQ less, Plunder seems to be less...

Lets see with which perfect Axis strategy Terif comes up to compensate for the axis weaknesses. Until then I will be surprised to see axis victories without a sealion.

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That missing HQ is a pain smile.gif

Allies were beefed quite a lot - no more steamrolling in 41 in Russia. The minors' collecting seems a must for Germany now, after the majors are in. I tried a game vs human and I am in mid 43 at the gates of Moscow and Stalingrad. Lvl 5 tanks help a lot but red armies are a pain to get rid of, at lvl 3 AT. Allies failed some north africa invasion but their air is raping mines , cities everything. Fortunately I can still concentrate on Russia - until a serious second front is open, Russia ain't no match for Germany.

Game is far more difficult for Axis now. I have doubts I could win against a veteran player.

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Overall I'm very pleased. Sub dive chance reduction, Army defense boost, entrech ability, etc., all good.

My few and small gripes before much testing are:

- US was boosted very much. I thought it would've been enough to give them just ONE of the three things they got now. We'll see how this turns out.

- Amphibious transport range could've been reduced to 3 or 4 since the tech increases the range. 6 is pretty much for the starting level - beyond bomber spotting range, air or naval superiority still not needed.

- Still no incentive to invade Norway for either side. Should affect Sweden and Finland.

It was a huge leap to the right direction and kudos to Hubert and the testers for that. Hope to see future patches address the above too.

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There is no doubt in my mind that now the tables have turned, and now it's the Axis turn to develop strategies in order to prevail. The days of the Axis running rampant all over the board collecting minors at will are more limited, and although minors can still be collected, it will have to be part of a larger strategy and timed correctly.

I already have some ideas in mind from the Axis side, and I'm thinking they will need to use units seldom deployed in the past to pull it off, and also need to be patient and methodical. In Russia I think it's going to be more of a war of attition that needs to be executed correctly by the Axis, rather than just blasting a bunch of units every time you get the chance.

In short, IMO balance has moved considerably toward 50/50.

Bob

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Originally posted by Exel:

Overall I'm very pleased. Sub dive chance reduction, Army defense boost, entrech ability, etc., all good.

My few and small gripes before much testing are:

- US was boosted very much. I thought it would've been enough to give them just ONE of the three things they got now. We'll see how this turns out.

- Amphibious transport range could've been reduced to 3 or 4 since the tech increases the range. 6 is pretty much for the starting level - beyond bomber spotting range, air or naval superiority still not needed.

- Still no incentive to invade Norway for either side. Should affect Sweden and Finland.

It was a huge leap to the right direction and kudos to Hubert and the testers for that. Hope to see future patches address the above too.

Nearly 100% agreement but I think most of the changes are too much. The Allies are boosted to much : There are even now 2 HQs for the allies in Egypt.

Leeb really hurts the axis what is not bad.

AS I mentioned before . Siberian transfer early is obver the top. Germany has perhaps one chance in 41 to take all important targets if not game over.

I think its more a ´75%/25% patch for the allies. Perhaps we will find some gamey tactics for the axis but if this is the point of a strategy game?

Righ now many good things unfortunately they add up wrong for me at this moment

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One interesting point about the new defence for Armies is that its not across the board, some nations get it and some don't!

------

Army SD/TD = 2

UK

USA

USSR

Germany

Finalnd

Spain

Sweden

Switzerland

------

Army SD/TD = 1

France

Italy

Canada

Poland

+ all other minors

------

I am surprised by this, afaik it's the first stat that is different by nation. Seems a little cruel on France and Italy too... and a little generous to Finland/Spain/Sweden/Switzerland perhaps?

As the defense boost essentially makes attacking against it costlier in casaulties it gives the majors a defensive boost vs minors, and makes major vs major (or where defense=2) bloodier.

I think I prefer it with SD/TD = 2 across the board for armies, just make armies costlier to attack for everyone.

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Originally posted by Exel:

- Amphibious transport range could've been reduced to 3 or 4 since the tech increases the range. 6 is pretty much for the starting level - beyond bomber spotting range, air or naval superiority still not needed.

So, we still don't have a reasonable simulation of WW2 in Europe, particularly the critical 1st half. Too bad...
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I don't find the new SD/TD for Armies to be unrealistic, according to the doctrines of each of the nations that received a boost.

Finish, Spanish, Swedish and Swiss troops were just better prepared for fighting defensively.

Finland - Experienced from 2 wars with Russia

Swiss - Prepared mountain redoubts, well trained ready reserve.

Spain - Experienced from Civil War

Swedish - Well trained ready reserve.

In my opinion none of the other neutrals, including Canada, matched these nations in their preparation for war.

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The amphib range is fine, it takes 2 turns to do a Sealion from far away ports.

If you wish to do it in one turn you have to mass in Brest and Belgium, easily spotted by AIR. If you miss it, you were unprepared.

If they prepare far away, by the time they'll get to UK land they will be low in morale and readiness, ending up in disaster.

The HQ in Egypt only supports the Commonwealth troops in Egypt and they have no tech, no really a big boost.

USA received a significant boost, rightly so, they were producing units faster than anyone.

Also entering US soil provokes "homeguard" which makes sense, say five German units land, that is 500k troops maximum vs. 100 million US, forget about it.

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France could have used the SD boost too. To make the French campaign a bit harder for the Axis. Then again that might have been too much with all the other Allied bonuses, but it could've been balanced.

Still I will refrain from further commenting before I've gotten a few games through. The above points stand but anything else is too early to really evaluate.

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After some test games:

Game is now a bit back into balance. No walkthrough any more for Axis and with some mistakes they will now loose. Nevertheless, as long as Axis don´t do crazy stuff, they are still - slightly - in the advantage (standard game, no sealion) smile.gif .

Since UK now gets minor units without tech in Egypt, they are even a bit weaker than before (the 2nd HQ doesn´t support british units) and german amphib range is still too large as long as there are no other factors to make Sealion more difficult. They can still prepare outside of enemy sighing range and Royal Navy can´t patrol in front of the enemy ports without beeing blown to pieces ;) . So Sealion is still a problem, but perhaps the next patch... smile.gif .

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Originally posted by Terif:

German amphib range is still too large as long as there are no other factors to make Sealion more difficult. They can still prepare outside of enemy sighing range and Royal Navy can´t patrol in front of the enemy ports without beeing blown to pieces ;) . So Sealion is still a problem, but perhaps the next patch... smile.gif .

That's absolutely true. I would suggest that that the maximum amphib range for Germany should be 4 at the beginning of the war in order to reflect that the Germans actually never had a strong (amphib) navy in contrast to the Allies.

I wish I would possess the US version of the game, too. Damn, this weekend would have been great in order to test this patch.

Ciao Frank

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Originally posted by Franky-Boy:

I would suggest that that the maximum amphib range for Germany should be 4 at the beginning of the war in order to reflect that the Germans actually never had a strong (amphib) navy in contrast to the Allies.

With the new amphib tech we could easily have the default amphib range at said 4 or even 3 tiles as it could be increased by tech investments - it took the Allies too a lot of trial&error too before they got to where they were in 1944 regarding amphib ops.

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

06/06/1944 --- German military dude Erwin Rommell wasn't so bright. He didn't think the Yanks were coming this day. He was taking back a pair of French shoes to his wife. No wonder AH waxed him. Germans, overated!

You'll be sure to post something similar of 12/07/1941 then in December, wont you? Oh but of course the American military dudes are always so bright and Pearl was just a genious..umm..bait to get the war started! :cool:
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Blocking ain't solved - italian navy can block the Greece-Tobruk passage denying the Med traffic for the allies, for example.

It would be interesting that active powers' units could pass thru the same tile occupied by a neutral unit (sea tiles). No more gamey blocking this way smile.gif

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Originally posted by hellraiser:

Blocking ain't solved - italian navy can block the Greece-Tobruk passage denying the Med traffic for the allies, for example.

It would be interesting that active powers' units could pass thru the same tile occupied by a neutral unit (sea tiles). No more gamey blocking this way smile.gif

If you want the Italian navy to be oblitereated, go ahead and block that passage. I know how to sink the Italian navy when it does that and I'm sure Terif would love it if you did it as well, hehehe.

That one is NOT an issue, you do it, you pay dearly.

USA is pretty much fixed, we'll have to wait and see.

As far as stacking, no thanks, not for SC2.

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