Jump to content

The Wermacht and General German Bashing


Recommended Posts

I like how SC is nonpolitical. All wargames are really.

I notice how a lot of people bash people like Rambo for sharing how he feels, when many secretly are overly defensive due to the fact it's a pretty touchy subject. Big German group on-line and many of us Favor Playing Axis. I personally enjoy the Position of Plunderer, Conqueror, and Germany gives you that feel. It is supposed to be the underdog who outplays the Huge Allied Giant Conquors him and rapes his neutrals, carves an Empire and End Game.. Rambo is a bit of an extremist but what people don't acknowledge it's not all trash talk. He needs to tone it down to be understood is all. Banter doesn't achieve much.

In World War II the General German didn't have much love for undesirables. I know because I know people that lived then and were in those uniforms, whether they were SS or regular Wermacht soldiers. Given, not everyone in Germany was a hateful spiteful Nazi..though many many were and the general feeling was of disdain toward Jews, Slavs and Bolsheviks<pretty much same as slavs>

It is something ingrained in the German, paraphrazing a book I just read, "it's like crap in a toilet, that you keep flushing down, but the water keeps rising up." In regards to the Germans activities during the 20th century.

I know people who're young and from all nationalities who still feel the same way. Inbred into them by their parents. So ingrained into them, it's not unlike how many White Americans feel toward blacks and other minorities.

I notice all too often we left off the Wermacht as the Noble fighting men, and indeed they stomached some HELL. As did the German People but sadly they brought it upon themselves, thinking they could just keep conquoring and conquoring. The ideologies in the mind of many of the Leaders of the Wermacht were not planted their by Adolf they were already there.

This is hard for many to take but a fact. And probably one of the greatest atrocities in history. Maybe up there with the Wiping out of the Native American Population of the United States, not all of that was deliberate however and originally the intentions of the Settlers.

I thought this should be addressed though frankly and honestly by someone who really does know and has experience in the area. In fact I'm near a proffessional in this area of knowledge..

"I'm certian with some research you can find the extent of the Average German's knowledge of what really went on! They were no dummies, Germany was made up of THE Brighest minds of the 20th century!"

Link to post
Share on other sites
"I'm certian with some research you can find the extent of the Average German's knowledge of what really went on! They were no dummies, Germany was made up of THE Brighest minds of the 20th century!"
Of course they killed off a good portion of their own brightest minds.... How different would German policy in the interwar be if Rathenau had been brought back to deal with the depression and social unrest instead of Hitler?

That all said, given enough pressure, any society can be afflicted with the kind of suicidal/homicidal mania that afflicted Germany. The banality of evil is one of the most impressive and depressing conclusions of many studies of the holocaust and Germany's march off a cliff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every population has a tendency to follow it's leaders in patriotism. The Germans did it with Hitler's "Ein Reich", the Russians did it with Stalin's ""Mother Russia", the Chinese did it with Mao's "Great Step Forward", the US did it with Bush' "War On Terror".

Populations think that their country is the best on earth, jusy because they are born in it and listen to leaders that tell them over and over how great they are.

The results are know : people tend to shut out the bad news about their governement : turning a blind eye to tortures, locking up people without reason, spying on their own population...

Nothing new under the sun, really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bugger me though, you are not a professional when it comes to spelling. Or in putting forward a thesis. Just what are you trying to say?

"I thought this should be addressed though frankly and honestly by someone who really does know and has experience in the area. In fact I'm near a proffessional in this area of knowledge.. "

You mean that you are a professional (and have experience in) genocides and atrocities? Should we be sending you to The Hague for trial for crimes against humanity? Or that you are an almost professional historian on domestic Germany, 1870-1970? Because I am lost.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Liam:

I know people who're young and from all nationalities who still feel the same way. Inbred into them by their parents. So ingrained into them, it's not unlike how many White Americans feel toward blacks and other minorities.

Some. Most of the nation had a different viewpoint. Think they were called the North. ;)

This is hard for many to take but a fact. And probably one of the greatest atrocities in history. Maybe up there with the Wiping out of the Native American Population of the United States, not all of that was deliberate however and originally the intentions of the Settlers.

Er, most of the native population was wiped out by disease long before the Indian Wars even really got going. And the Indian Wars were never even close to the scale of what we're talking about for a genocide.

Citing figures from a 1894 estimate by the United States Census Bureau, one scholar has noted that the more than 40 Indian wars from 1775 to 1890 reportedly claimed the lives of some 45,000 Indians and 19,000 whites. This rough estimate includes women and children, since noncombatants were often killed in frontier warfare (see also "Indian massacres").[1]
Gee, that works out to killing 397 Indians a year. And the buggers were shooting back to boot. So if you want to call it a genocide, think it was the most unsuccessful, slow moving one in history.

Now back away from the VCR, and throw the "Dancing with Wolves" tape away. tongue.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Liam, his professional viewpoint is well received! Yes, Liam does prefer playing the Axis, that's for sure, he'd bid them up in the 50+ TCP/IP games we've played.

I've yet to figure out what's going on in Europe, so I just go by personal experience & my Legendardy intelligence. First, what's with all the wars? These Germans get all worked up & just start attacking everybody & waxing civilians. But today, they love to attack the USA for protecting ourselves & the world. They need to learn what global security is all about. The USA is promoting Democracy...is their memory only short term? That Berlin wall came down because we stood up to Commies in Vietnam, Korea, Cold War, etc. We refused to cave-in! Now these silly fake Pacifists thumb their nose at us, while our tax money pays for their protection, including protection from themselves.

Our U.S. Veterens didn't & don't worship Germans like all the whackies today. My Uncle K. who is alive & well in Texas fought Helmut in the N.Atlantic & he doesn't worship them, rather curses them. My Uncle J. & a few relatives were "detained in a camp", enough said there. This dude who recently died who went to my old church spent his winter Bastogne, showed me the wound scars, he didn't worship Wolfgang. This neighbor lady on my paperroute had a tattoo from these monsters. This other dude from Bulgaria had half his family killed like pigs. Don't tell me this stuff isn't real. Germans were killers, just that simple.

Biggest thing that ticks me off is this attitude of "Oh, it's Hitler's fault". You kidding me? AH was just the speech maker, the whole dang country went nuts. Or the other crap,"we are just regular Germans", yeah whatever. I'm sure when the tanks are killing your family you're not saying,"Honey, it's AH fault, these guys are just happy regulars, non-Nazi, no worries, those aren't Nazi bullets." Give me a break. These clowns tried to murder the world & ruin our lives & way of life. Then, you know what ticks me off even more? Some worshipper will post,"Well, what about Stalin, he's worse", give me another break, you stuff people into ovens & have the nerve to point the finger at Russia. Whatever, weren't not discussing Russia, were discussing Bunta.

Now, I don't blame these German dudes today, it wasn't their fault. It just annoys me they diss on our policies without understand global stuff, while we freed them & protect them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by TaoJah:

Every population has a tendency to follow it's leaders in patriotism. The Germans did it with Hitler's "Ein Reich", the Russians did it with Stalin's ""Mother Russia", the Chinese did it with Mao's "Great Step Forward", the US did it with Bush' "War On Terror".

Thank you for your opinion of suggested similar examples. Any attempted response would clearly be lost on you. Your post confirms your own prejudice and lack of credibility. We can take comfort in knowing that you really aren't worth responding too.
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lars --- Nice take, rack 'em!

I get tired of the whole Indian crap. Disease killed these bareback riders. THEY SOLD US NEW YORK, THEY SOLD US THEIR PROPERTY. Not our fault that couldn't hold their liquor. Indians didn't even know what property ownership was until we taught them. Manifest Destiny (as taught in public school) is true & right on! The Indians were very diverse, some of the Indian dudes chilled out & liked us (see Thanksgiving, the Legend's favorite Holiday), other Indian dudes went Wounded Knee. You know how many regular people lived with these dudes, converting them to the Truth? It was going to happen, that the tents of Shem would be dwelt in.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Wisbech_lad:

[QB] Bugger me though, you are not a professional when it comes to spelling. Or in putting forward a thesis. Just what are you trying to say?

At least he didn’t say he was an expert! It’s the worlds experts you have to watch out for. Nothing messes up the world more than people who think they are experts. Experts start wars, segregate peoples and generally decide what is best about people they know nothing about.

As for bashing JJR I think most of it is tongue in check, I know some of the comments I have made are. JJR has been a source of joy for me ever since I first discovered this web site. A patriot who loves his country no mater what ridiculous actions it takes,

Well at least he is a man of conviction. Long may he live, but just don’t let him run for president!

Link to post
Share on other sites

What can I say? Except the Truth? In the USA, we start out with the 1st Ammendment, freedom of Speech. I can street preach, worship how I want, express my opinions, etc. 2nd Ammendment, I can own & pack heat. Good grief, I can go in my backyard, carry my "book of choice", grab a brew, and shoot guns! Take a short trip to a grocery store, they are everywhere. Any type of food is available, and Mickey D's if you're in a hurry. A #20 bag of Idaho's Finest are only $1.98. I can drive my SUV when & wherever (except traffic jams). Got air conditioner, woodstove with enough wood for 200 years, a nice cool pillow, High Definition television. I goto Florida once a year for DisneyWorld & Daytona 500. We have golf, baseball, and country music. There are more jobs than people. Anybody who can't make it in the USA is just lazy, it's that simple. If you don't like your job, get 2 jobs for awhile & just save some jack.

No complaints, Happy 4th of July. Whatever with material opporutnity, WE'VE GOT FREEDOM!

Red, White, & Blue,

-Legend

Link to post
Share on other sites
Biggest thing that ticks me off is this attitude of "Oh, it's Hitler's fault". You kidding me? AH was just the speech maker, the whole dang country went nuts. Or the other crap,"we are just regular Germans", yeah whatever. I'm sure when the tanks are killing your family you're not saying,"Honey, it's AH fault, these guys are just happy regulars, non-Nazi, no worries, those aren't Nazi bullets." Give me a break. These clowns tried to murder the world & ruin our lives & way of life. Then, you know what ticks me off even more? Some worshipper will post,"Well, what about Stalin, he's worse", give me another break, you stuff people into ovens & have the nerve to point the finger at Russia. Whatever, weren't not discussing Russia, were discussing Bunta.
Fair argument, but essentially wrong. "Just a speechmaker" was what the German elites thought the were getting in 1933. And he worked out pretty well too. Cured inflation, took back the Rhineland, killed off the brownshirts -- the real loonies in the Nazi party. Or at least so they thought until 1938 or so.

(All of this leaves aside the increasing sanction for anti-semitism, and the slow bleed of (lucky) German Jews to France, England, and the United States (those lucky enough not to get turned back at the gates) though even there mechanized murder doesn't really get going until early in the war)

But Hitler makes a lot of crucial decisions that go way beyond making speeches, not least the decision to attack France at even odds. Was it all Hitler's fault? No, clearly not. Would we be living in a different world today if Hitler had been shot in the Beerhall Putsch. Very likely.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rambo you know I give you a hard time in some of your posts about what I consider your extrem views but I want to say that your first post in this thread is RIGHT ON! Well said in a logical manner and not over the top.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Our U.S. Veterens didn't & don't worship Germans like all the whackies today.
Hmmm.

In over 4 years on this forum I cannot recall

One single incident, jjr,

When this was the case,

IE, that some member... WORSHIPS Hitler

Or, the GErmans in general.

Name one instance.

And if you can do, tell me, if you don't mind

HOW you could possibly

"Get inside the heart & mind"

Of any person that you cannot see,

Or touch, say,

Shake hands with,

And,

"Look 'em in right IN the eye"

So to determine, tactiley,

Just WHAT they are made of.

And just what they... believe.

Did you not know the exaggerated amount

Of sheer "showmanship"

That happens on any forum.

[... simple reason being, no one looking

over the shoulder, a chance to let go

some REAL, or imagined thoughts

that you would NEVER allow out

in ordinary, everyday conversations]

You should.

You are one of the aptest practisers

Of it.

As when you CONSTANTLY accuse

Some folks, play-testers even,

Of being GErman lovers

And such & so. :rolleyes:

Now, I don't blame these German dudes today, it wasn't their fault.
No more than it is your fault,

Or mine, or ANYBODY

Now alive,

That the Indians are living on Reservations,

Which, BTW,

Was very often the LEAST desirable land

Available in any given State.

Nor, that it is OUR fault that African-Americans

Were once upon a time,

Chattels without chance of living

Out the American Dream, even steven,

No hindrance, no harm.

So?

I must conclude, then, that YOU, jjr,

REALLY truly mean it

When you say that we shouldn't BLAME

Anyone now alive,

Like GErmans, or the Spanish in South America,

Or the French in Canada, etc,

For ANYTHING that happened

BEFORE each of us was born.

That's fine,

I've often expressed an identical sentiment.

However,

I would add this: IF some small kindness

Can be done

For any single Soul who has suffered needlessly,

Well,

By all means, we should do it.

This is realized as:

"Making things right."

Or,

Should you be inclined Easternly,

Good Karma.

I say: Ease the Earth,

Do not further dis-ease it. :cool:

[ June 28, 2006, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Desert Dave --- Welcome back to the party. Hey, I'm not hurting the Earth, this morning I'm just chillin', actually "Having a Coke (Diet) and a smile" smile.gif I will recycle my plastic bottle too. And I hate the sound of lettuce screming, so I'll love the Earth & wear my sandles for you. Far as separating history from gaming, well, I'll leave that upto the experts. Now, I do like that little quote of yours which reminds me a better quote.

"Reckon I'm goin' with ya" --- Outlaw Josey Wales. (We're going North to set things right).

-Legend

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey, I'm not hurting the Earth, this morning I'm just chillin', actually "Having a Coke (Diet) and a smile" smile.gif
And I am drinking green tea

With a dollop of "gravel root"

(... for to ease strictures in the joints)

And "milk thistle"

(... so to help the liver process

accumulation of wrongly introduced... junk! LOL!)

And rest assured of this one thing, jjr.

You have FOOLED very many over the years,

But,

I like to pretend that you haven't

Put much of much over on me.

As in... you thoroughly ENJOY

Playing the jester,

The "show-man"

Entertaining the gathered clan.

You are NOT remotely what you seem to be.

Anybody, IMHO,

Who can see the genuine poetry

In J Swaggert, or Jerry Lee,

Is alright by me. :cool:

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Desert Dave --- Dude, I've got 3 of Jimmy Swaggart's album, matter of fact, I got saved as a by-product of his preaching when I was 5 years old. I will NOT listen to Donnie Swaggart, do not trust him. Now, Jerry Lee Lewis is The Killer, got 1 of his albums. Those are facts, nothing to debate there.

Far as me being an Entertainer, hey, my game is intended for the Crowd Favorite. The RACK strategy of SC-1 defeated EVERY opponent on planet Earth! The strategy was huge, put me on the map. RAI created a world-wide houserule, just another fact. There's nothing shifty about my gameplay. Even when I lose, I win.

"You need people like me. You think you're good, you're not good. You're not free to be what you really are. Even when I lie, I tell the truth" --- Scarface

Link to post
Share on other sites
Even when I lose, I win.

LOL,

Before I go out and attend to my amazing!

Odd orange & golden-steaked Lilies

Of the Field,

I daresay, didn't realize

You knew of... the Zen warrior way.

Or,

To paraphrase E Hemingway:

Part of you stumbles

And... falls.

Jagged shards scattered

All around the yard.

Pick 'em up!

Put 'em back together again!

You are stronger,

Mightier than a million mounted men!

Then.

And,

Only then. :cool:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

Or the other crap,"we are just regular Germans", yeah whatever. I'm sure when the tanks are killing your family you're not saying,"Honey, it's AH fault, these guys are just happy regulars, non-Nazi, no worries, those aren't Nazi bullets."

What about US troops atrocities in Vietnam, Iraq, etc? What about british soldiers atrocities, about russian soldiers' atrocities, etc?

Dude is not about germans being a race of killers, it is all about WAR. War has this unique ability of surfacing the demons inside of us. You got adrenaline running wild, lose all that sanity that makes us humans, become a killing machine - instincts take over. You see a village in the enemy territory? Who can guarantee you that you won't face a battallion of battle hardened veterans dressed up in civilians clothes? Just shell the damn settlement to dust and press forward!!!

The US military invented the most cynical sintagm I've ever seen 'collateral damage'. These 2 words in fact express the full range of atrocities that are commonly encountered in a war.

The war ****s up anyone's brains, don't blame the germans or the americans or whatever. We are all the same...

'Killing is my business and business is good.' - Megadeth

Link to post
Share on other sites

Or Rambo take a tour to Wounded Knee. Yea the scale is a lot differant but it amounts to the same thing. I think all he is trying to say is we are all human and the Germans who commited those crimes were after all part of us all. If you think that somehow Americans are special and we don't have to worry about that kind of thing happening here in the US then you are just inviting it. If you forget history you are doomed to repeat it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...