Eastern Front corps sized scenario in work..with updates

[benCG]

I am looking forward to this

If you want the help I will offer to work on some AI scripts for this scenario... If you know what you want the ai to do I can translate that into scripts pretty well, let me know.

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by benCG:

I am looking forward to this

If you want the help I will offer to work on some AI scripts for this scenario... If you know what you want the ai to do I can translate that into scripts pretty well, let me know.

great, that would be very helpful!

[Kuniworth]

Update June 23;

* Begun adding bombing events of german cities. I will include the large historical raids(1000-bomber saturation raids, Hamburg & Dresden firestorms, operation millenium "battle of Berlin" etc etc) on the cities present in the game as well as a random event for each city to simulate the continous bombing throughout the war.

* Will soon add partisans. They will be incorporated as supply events and appear more frequent in areas that they were particulary active in(White russia, Bryansk-Orel etc). One exception to this may be Tito's partisans that ultimatly liberated Yugoslavia much on their own and therefore may appear as a partisan-unit when Soviets start advancing into the balkans.

* Historical order of battle finished for the land units of Soviet Union, Germany, Hungary, Finland, Romania, Slovakia.

* Historical order of battle finished for the soviet and german navies.

* Artillery(rockets) not represented at start of Barbarossa. However both sides can build artillery corps as were done historically by the russians.

* Leader-file almost finished for the game. All soviet front commanders and german army commanders of the eastern front included.

* Still to do; completly finish the airforce order of battle.

I finally after many hours of thought came up with a force-structure that works and get the game as realistic as possible; Corps will be axis land unit, Soviet will have armies as their main building structure with corps. In Barbarossa the frontal soviet armies start of with their attached corps beside them to get the game historically. Meanwhile the field armies of STAVKA:s strategic reserve only are represented by an "army-unit" and no corps to reflect the stavka circular 01 that abolished the corps-unit on july 15th.

[ June 23, 2006, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ]

[Guest Mike]

Cool - you need a hand with the VVS OOOB's at all?

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

Cool - you need a hand with the VVS OOOB's at all?

Actually I do. The problem is not as much the OOB but rather finding a comparable system. The current model Im thinking of is including german luftflottes divided into 1 fighter and 1 bomber unit(makes a total of 6 german airunits at start of barbarossa) and russian airunits attached to front. But then how to solve the "air armies" structure?

[Retributar]

The increased continuous bombing frequency as well as now bombing deep into Germany is very welcomed where it will historically simulate the 'Real Bombing Effort'!. Thankyou for improving the realism of this aspect of the game Kuniworth !.

If one play's the Axis,...the Allied bombing effort should now be a full-time-real-concern as is was historically!. However, some play-balance issue's might need to be resolved so that the Bombing Effort doesn't twist the game into some un-historical result!.

EG: If necessary, the German's should be able to get a leg-up on Anti-Aircraft Gun research,...without having to wait till the end of the game before it take's place!.

Already in v1.02 for the Bomber Group effort of the British & American's in Western Europe [mostly France],...the latest patch has made an improvement!.

[Major Spinello]

Kuni, that will be a hell of a scenario! I always wanted something like this since SSI´s "Eastern Front" and Grigsby´s "War in Russia" (which both were a bit cumbersome unfortunately).

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Will shifting fighters to the west mitigate the

effects of these auto-raids Kuni? If not it's an

interesting sideshow with little (other than AA

tech as Retributar said) the Germans can do about it.

[Retributar]

One more point that just came to mind!...regarding deep bomber penetration's into enemy held territory!.

Since Allied Bomber Fomation's will now go deep into Axis occupied territory [The bomber's will now need extended range to go deeper into Europe],...i would like to propose that somehow the Axis Fighter Air-Fleet's get to attack once on the inbound bomber group and once more on the outbound or homebound bomber fleet!.

This was historical,...it was done just so!.

As it now stand's...if the bomber's have extended range...they can fly-in,...and be 'intercepted only once' before they can return back to safety!.

Where'as in Reality the same interceptor group's,after refueling...could go back up to intercept the bomber & it's Escort Fighter's AGAIN on the bomber-group's flight back home!.

The reasoning behind this is,...that each turn is about 2 week's on the average,...so that's why im clamouring for a double attack on a Bomber Air-Fleet if the Attacker elect's to take that option!.

Thus...a fighter attack take's place prior to bombing,...then the bomber group [Escorted by it's Escort Fighter's] bomb's it's target,...then the fighter attack group could elect to attack a 2nd time if they feel that they have enough strength to do so!.

A FINAL LAST POINT: To be able to Escort Bomber's to Germany ... the Allies will at least need the P-51 Mustang!,...as it is the only fighter that i am aware of that could fulfil that mission!.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/p51_mustang.htm

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~nagle/P51arch.html

The Mustang in its primary role: escorting a B-17 Flying Fortress. The Mustang was the first fighter capable of escorting bombers over Berlin.

That might mean requiring an Aircraft-Tech level of 4 is my guess!.

[ June 23, 2006, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[Baron]

I had the good fortune to play a few turns of this scenario today. Man,it is great! Making this operational scenario really shows the potential of this engine. Great job!! I can hardly wait to play the finished product.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stalin's Organist:

Cool - you need a hand with the VVS OOOB's at all?

Actually I do. The problem is not as much the OOB but rather finding a comparable system. The current model Im thinking of is including german luftflottes divided into 1 fighter and 1 bomber unit(makes a total of 6 german airunits at start of barbarossa) and russian airunits attached to front. But then how to solve the "air armies" structure? </font>

[Kuniworth]

June 26th UPDATE

Played a game vs Oliva with me as the germans. We played from june 41 until early october 41 when the mud came. The scenario plays very well but it needs some tweakning as germans are a bit too strong. However here is a brief report on what happened;

June;

Border defences smashed and german advanced rapidly, getting to Smolensk on historical date(mid july 41). THen rapid advances on Kiev and Odessa which could not stand up and fell quickly(hmmm need to think about that).

In the north however something interesting happened. My succesful push toward Moscow made Army group North way to weak. The russians first knocked out Finland and then defended Pskov and counterattacked which made the whole army group run for Riga. It stalled the offensive for 1,5 month so I never got close to Leningrad.

In the center and south I smashed the russians and advanced fast. Moscow fell late september and I was closing in on Rostov and Stalingrad when we quit.

CONCLUSION;

- Soviets can't in the long run stand and need to be even more strenghtened.

- German losses are few allthough tech levels are very modest. The killer here is experience and allmopst all my units had 3 stars in beginning of october.

- Finns gets overrun when red army masses against them. Germans can't support them as the red navy controls the baltic sea. After all this is fairly natural and a choice the allied player must make.

I will soon add partisans which may affect the game even more.

[Guest Mike]

Supply is the key if you are comparing it to history - when the German offensive on Moscow stalled I believe that the germans had 1.7 milloin men in AG centre - opposed by about 1.1 million Russians - popular images of hordes of Soviets overwhelming scattered and outnumbered Germans are myths.

[Kuniworth]

Scenario almost complete. Will be for human vs human play. Im gonna play Oliva and then Ranchero and straighten out some tweaks. After that post it at cmmods.com.

[rleete]

Cool. I look forward to it.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Is the AI hopeless then Kuni?

[Kuniworth]

Originally posted by John DiFool the 2nd:

Is the AI hopeless then Kuni?

When I tweaked it a bit more. I will release it and then we can look on the AI together.

[AZGungHo]

Kuni,

Glad to hear you are going to address the AI at some point. I'm one of those AI only players and would love to play this one - sounds like you've done a superior job!