Col Deadmarsh Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Reading through the posts, I'm getting the feeling that infantry isn't as strong as it was in CMBO. If this is true, what are the reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 how do you mean "not as strong"? they are more easily supressed than in cmbo, but isn't that historical? if you mean they have lost firepower as compared to cmbo, i disagree. infantry are still the workhorse of the battlefield. they still have the same mission as in cmbo. the tactics may be different(than in cmbo) to achieve that mission, but infantry are still a necessary part of the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Its hard to quantify. It appears that rifles work better at long range than in CMBO, and smgs are positively lethal in house-to-house fighting. And an infantry squad in a trench can cause you a world of hurt. Not to mention sachel charges. But those pesky revised mgs throw the old balance way off! It's the mgs (including tank-mounted mgs) that are giving the infantry a bad rep in CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 zukkov has it right on. The infantry is not weaker, no matter what you read about CMBB. The other assets, such as MGs, have been updated to be more realistic, suppression increased. Infantry is just as strong as ever, but you better rethink that tactic of rushing those few infantry units across three football fields of open ground directly at that machinegun to take it out. May have worked in CMBO, but not in real life, and not in CMBB. You can still take out that machinegun with the infantry, but your going to have to do it with a plan this time around. Like artillery support, smoke, close support tanks, covering infantry suppression fire, using cover effectively, and so on. All of this has just become more important in CMBB to get the mission done. A curse to some, a blessing to others. I think the majority see it as the later. Defense is now rewarded for good setup and proper planning. Attack is now rewarded for good setup and proper planning. Hey, that suits me just fine. And this idea where some say CMBB is more realistic but less fun? Bush rockets! What a load. The more realistic, the more fun! CMBB is more fun! Its harder on the attack. More fun! Beta testers said it feels more like the real thing. More fun! Have to re-learn from my comfortable CMBO way. More fun! Its not West Front! So what! Its more fun! No shockwaves! Don't matter, its still more fun. My troops hit the dirt a lot! More fun! All this is goodness. Taking WWII reality seriously in a wargame is not making anything less fun to play. The user interface is basically the same wonderful one from CMBO, the game play of WEGO is the same, all that which made CMBO fun to play is still the same. And on top of that, its more realistic to boot. Good stuff. More fun! What was the question of this thread? Oh, yea, I don't think the infantry is weaker at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Whew! I think Kump just had a blood pressure spike! Sit down there guy, you feeling a bit dizzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Actually, I find infantry to be stronger than in CMBO. They supress more easily, but they seem to be more resilient with regards to morale. For instance, often times I'll have a vehicle knocked out or abandoned, and the crew will pop out only pinned (though they still "broke" in the effort to get out ). No, infantry are definitely not weaker. They just aren't willing to be as suicidal. Actually, outside of large, open areas, I've not had a single problem with CMBB infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 They havnt lost strength per say, they have only become more human. In CMBO, they were more robots than Human. Now, they act more like a real soldier would to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 And if you're using EFOW, then your tanks will have serious trouble with infantry. Once the tank buttons the attacking infantry can waltz through cover and the tank will remain oblivious. mgs can certainly be handled by infantry, but, you have to use cover and/or suppression. I'm very pleased that you now have to think twice (maybe three times) before crossing open ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Infantry in CMBB are weaker on the attack. As a corollary, they are stronger on the defense. As an example of their strength, a squad armed with rifles can make a squad moving in the open drop and crawl from a range of 200 meters. As an example of their weakness, a squad with rifles can make a squad moving in the open drop and crawl from a range of 200 meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Whew! I think Kump just had a blood pressure spike! Sit down there guy, you feeling a bit dizzy? Nah, just a fresh cup of coffee, that's all! Agh, the excuses. CMBB has just earned my due respect over the past few weeks and on top of that, its more fun. Kudos to all that worked on it. The round table discussions resulted in a CM that's even more fit for the grogs and the masses. The grogs because its more realistic (within the confines of the CM engine) and the masses because its fun. Just wonder why some feel one negates the other? It don't. Its fun. Its FUN! You hear me? I'll tell you why! Because having to use realistic tactics is fun! Using combined arms is fun! Having things work the way you expect is fun! Its... its... Oh man, I was going off again. No more coffee today for me! I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robohn Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 I feel the infantry seem to have more efect when firing on other infantry units in CMBB than in CMBO. Not just in supression either, in actually causing some causualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted October 23, 2002 Author Share Posted October 23, 2002 This sounds like a good change. Now...what about infantry vs. AFV's? Is it easier to kill a tank with infantry in CMBB than it was in CMBO? Does the "follow" command (or whatever the hell it's called) help in taking out enemy armor while preserving your infantry's safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 I played a QB vs the AI today, where I was axis on attack. My german troops were sneaking through woodland, and on the other side of the woods were a pair of T26s, just waiting to strike at my PzIIIs (which they would have got side shots on). The tie-lots-of-grenades-together-and-stand-well-back weapon is top. One hit took one out, another hit immobilised the other and a couple of grenades finished the crew off. I've had remarkable success against lightly armoured AFVs using infantry - probably related to their light armour as much as anything, but I'm finding infantry combat much more interesting that I used to in CM:BO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 You have to consider the time period. In 41', there was less tools for the infantry to use and it depends more on luck that grenades will at least immobilize a tank. There are tank hunter teams to help. Satchel charges are still deadly to tanks, so tanks should avoid pioneer/engineer squads. Later years give more tools you are familiar with from CMBO. In CMBO, when you order an infantry unit to approach a tank for the purpose of an assault, this would result with the tank creating distance and your squad squating in the open doing nothing while the tank fires at it from a safe distance. The follow command allows the infantry to assault the tank by following it and keeping the distance close enough to continue the assault. Its best used when the tank is buttoned and is just passing close by. You can then follow and continue throwing molotovs or grenades while the tank may be unaware and engaged with another target. You certainly hope it doesn't notice the assaulting unit, because those MGs are nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Infantry is definitely a lot better off against tanks then it was in CMBO. You can have a squad toss assorted nasties at buttoned tanks from buildings all day long and it won't spot them. Panzerwurfmine and the like are especially deadly. If a unit gets near enough to your tank to toss one, it's history. Panzerfausts are used much more rapidly. A squad can fire multiple fausts literally in a matter of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted October 24, 2002 Share Posted October 24, 2002 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: ...they have only become more human. more human than human? gdr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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