Infantry Formation

[Hiram Sedai]

When crossing open terrain, I'm losing a huge amount of infantry lately. I now know not to lead with my platoon leader but am stumped on which is the best formation to use. Any suggestions?

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Kingfish]

Try smoke to cover your advance. Have your men run in a zig-zag fashion to throw the aim off of big guns. Leapfrog platoons from cover to cover, with one platoon laying down covering fire for the other, both covered by MG and mortar teams farther back.

[Hiram Sedai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

Try smoke to cover your advance. Have your men run in a zig-zag fashion to throw the aim off of big guns. Leapfrog platoons from cover to cover, with one platoon laying down covering fire for the other, both covered by MG and mortar teams farther back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the advice but...I tried the smoke thing and it basically announced where I was planning on going. He handed me my backside. What formation do you recommend?

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Kingfish]

Check this out:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/aars/game12/openindex.asp

Pay particular attention to the way Fionn handeled his infantry.

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Frag Hanoi Jane

[Hiram Sedai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

Check this out:

http://combathq.thegamers.net/aars/game12/openindex.asp

Pay particular attention to the way Fionn handeled his infantry.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kingfish, thank you for the link. This may be me showing my intellectual ineptitude, but I've read and re-read so many articles and posts by Fionn already. Most of it is over my head. Perhaps its my poor reading comprehension.

Thanks again.

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[coralsaw]

Hiram

IMO formation is not the most important thing, but anyway, here's what I prefer:

V: if I expect contact from the front but not the flanks.

Wedge: if I expect contact both from front and flanks.

Suppressive area fire in suspected forested areas (arty, HE, MG) etc is a must, as is smoke.

Regarding your "backside" comment, you can drop smoke at more than one spots, creating diversions (smoke lasts more than one turn so one mortar can do it).

In general though, the attacker will get discovered pretty quickly anyway, in which case it is better to be behind smoke rather than in the open.

Hope it helps (have to pay for this sig you know...

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I feel like I'm standing in front of the monkey cage at the zoo. - HiramS

[Guest Pillar]

Try not to always have formations that look like synchronized swimmers. You want to let your overall formation flow with the terrain.

The only rule you need to know for platoon formations is:

The most guns facing where you think you'll meet the enemy.

[Hiram Sedai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar:

Try not to always have formations that look like synchronized swimmers. You want to let your overall formation flow with the terrain.

The only rule you need to know for platoon formations is:

The most guns facing where you think you'll meet the enemy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Coralsaw and Pillar. The gist of the post is that I want to build some good habits when moving my infantry. When I play TCPIP games, I tend to move my guys in an inverted triangle with the platoon leader at the tip. He buys the farm and the guys' morale plummet.

I seem to have plenty of bad habits with infantry like packing them in a little building together too. Where you recommend I put the platoon leader if there is no mortar with that platoon?

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Samhain]

Check out the tactics section at http://www.gamesofwar.de , which features an extensive illustrated section on infantry formations.

Without mortars, I always keep the HQ unit as far to the rear as possible, with its squads standing between it and harm's way, while still remaining in command, and giving a little room for the squads to maneuver and stay in contact before the HQ has to move too. I never lead with my HQ units. Seems to work.

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Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 12-02-2000).]

[coralsaw]

Hiram,

Pillar is correct, terrain should dictate the formation.

I try to keep my platoon HQ at the back of the platoon. I use them as a sort of reserve force.

Having a mortar in the platoon should not change your strategu. Upon contact with the enemy it is safer to not lead with the HQ. When contact is established, I may crawl my HQ forward and spot for the mortar.

The only rule I try hard to stick to is to have all squads in a platoon in supporting positions of each other but not packed against each other, for obvious (arty etc) reasons... Then if one squad get overwhelmed, the others can jump in and help.

Regards.

[Guest Pillar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Kingfish, thank you for the link. This may be me showing my intellectual ineptitude, but I've read and re-read so many articles and posts by Fionn already. Most of it is over my head. Perhaps its my poor reading comprehension.

Thanks again.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hiram, if you don't understand something Fionn has written you should email him. He's more approachable than you might think. Drop him a line.

[JoePrivate]

Yes like others have said the formation isn't important or even relevant, what is is being mutually supporting and in C&C. If you have to cross a large open distance expecting it to be contested then I would call in artillery, mortars or area fire first on likely areas before making the move. If you are worried about announcing your intentions, don't be Once you make your move, maintain the tempo to keep your opponent off balance. I agree, a lot of what Fionn says seems a bit extraneous, but what you'll notice in his games and in the games of other good players is they take and keep the initiative by putting pressure on their opponents continually. If your opponent is simply reacting to your moves then you are usually a little closer to victory then he is.

[Harold]

One thing to be careful of is make sure you don't develop a pattern with placement of your Platoon HQ's. If all are "in the back" yet visible to fire a good opponent should pick out and pick on HQ's. Mix them up and fog of war seriously cuts down on the chances that your all your HQ's will be targets. If possible try to keep your HQ's out of direct fire. If not do not develop a pattern.

[Thermopylae]

The best way to advance with an infantry formation is to have a tank behind it. It can a) place direct HE on any weapons teams or well entrenched squads, provide smoke cover, and c) provide incredible overwatch/ area suppression when your advancing. Just make sure the enemy guns and tanks are out of the way first.

[Guest Napoleon1944]

Obvioulsy you don't cross open terrain with infantry if you can avoid it. Now what about my Kelleys Heros Operation? :^)

[Hiram Sedai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Napoleon1944:

Obvioulsy you don't cross open terrain with infantry if you can avoid it. Now what about my Kelleys Heros Operation? :^)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Napoleon - I spent some more time playing that operation and it was quite fun as the allies. I had to restart a couple of times but I got better ("she turned me into a newt")

So, the general concensus is "No Formation". Am I reading this correctly?

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Croda]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

So, the general concensus is "No Formation". Am I reading this correctly?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It isn't as much no formation, as it is that the formation will have to adjust to terrain and situation.

Think of it this way:

In an attack where you know that you will not have an enemy on your flank right from the get-go, you can place probably 2 squads forward with squad 3 and the HQ (and mortar, zook, FO, MG, etc) trailing behind. You want to move them from bound to bound (trees, walls, houses, depressions) so that they are not just sitting in the middle of nowhere. What this means is that the pretty formation that you create in your setup phase, will not last long. The goal is to keep your men in the same order relative to the others. Don't let your more vulnerable (support, HQ, etc) units get out ahead of the rifles. You may start out in a Y with trailers (I often use this), but after 2 turns of movement, terrain may dictate that the left branch of the Y is out further and the right branch is now at 3 o'clock. Bottom line, keep your rifle squads in front and keep moving, while putting HE on the spots you think you might get attacked from.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: You rock, Croda<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Terence]

Right. Don't worry too much about the formation, and think about ways in which you can stop the enemy bullets from hitting you.

An ideal assault across open territory would involve suppression fire (from tanks MGs mortars, other squad. whatever you have, really. And lots of smoke.

If you can do that you can move in whatever formation you like.

If you get close to a suppressed enemy, you are likely to win.

This is just what works for me.

Terence

[This message has been edited by Terence (edited 12-05-2000).]

[Marlow]

Don't worry so much about platoon formation as using your platoons as an integral part of a company. Make sure that one stationary platoon is in cover with line of sight and within effective range of areas of expected enemy fire. If at all possible, maintain the platoons in a position to mutually support each other. If you have time, and enemy contact is highly likely, use two platoons to cover the movement of the third. If time is more critical, or enemy activity less likely during a particular turn, cover two platoons with one. If you have support weapons (MGs, tanks, halftrack, etc…) and enough ammo, use these weapons to lay down a base of fire at suspected enemy positions.

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We are fierce historical inaccuracers

- PawBroon

[Hiram Sedai]

I knew it was only a matter of time before the cesspoolers found me out here asking questions. Thanks for the help, gentlemen.

Marlow - one question...the stationary platoon. When should I decide that platoon should not advance any more? I often have difficulty knowing when to stop and when to go. This is quite evident in my game versus Croda. I have the assets to pummel him senseless but am not sure when to advance my formidable forces. The idea of using a company as a company is new to me. I've played all of my platoons as autonomous of each other and have suffered the consequences.

Croda, thanks for the Y idea. I need pictures in my books, if you know what I mean.

Terence, the smoke is still a bugaboo for me. I can't effectively use it yet.

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Marlow]

Use as a company can actually be difficult in CM, particularly on defense, with all the ground to cover. However, it is usually possible to use two platoons together. Bounding by platoons rather than squads has the advantage of keeping the platoons under control of the platoon leader most of the time. With regards to how far ahead, this depends upon visibility, terrain, and weapons. Generally the moving platoon should look for a position about 100 to 150 m in front of the stationary platoon.

[Pak40]

Smoke is very usefull, but needs to be done properly and timed well. Don't use onboard mortars or tanks to make a mass smoke screen. They usually dont have enough rounds to effectively make one. They are only good for blocking the LOS of one MG or AT gun.

To properly make a mass smoke sceen use offboard mortars. It's cheap, fast firing and plenty of smoke rounds in a massed area. The smoke, however, will only last 1.5 turns typically.

Use smoke in 4 different ways:

1. Smoke the open ground which your men will have to cross before reaching some sort of cover. This is effective if your enemy is on the flank.

2. Smoke the cover which your men will move into. This should put up a big enough screen so that the enemy never sees your men moving into the cover. When your men get to the cover, hide them so that they are not seen when the smoke goes away. Then bring up supporting tanks etc. to launch your assualt.

3. Send scouts ahead to "find" some enemy forces. Once you determine where the main enemy forces are, drop smoke on top of them. They will be blind and your infantry and tanks will be able to move into position. I like this tactic the best, especially if I need to get some tanks in to position.

4. Use smoke as a bluff. Drop it in an open or semi-open area but have your men sneak up a different route using as much tree cover as possible. He may see a couple of your sneaking men but he will suspect your main attack is coming from the smoked area.

[Hiram Sedai]

Thank you, PAK40. That was excellent. Croda is gonna be in so much trouble now!!!

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Croda]

Hiram, at risk of giving you ideas that may help you beat me (I need a win any way I can get it...) here's my take on your situation:

You lost pretty much all of your armor right off the bat by leading with them into a nifty little PIAT ambush. It caused me to grin a lot, but put you in rough shape. So now you have virtually infantry only with which to push me out of my hiding holes. If I were you here's how I would do it (note please that I am no strategic genius).

Your infantry appear battered on your right. They've been trading fire the whole game and have been whalloped by 2 barrage of high caliber arty. Many of them aren't even engaged, and the ones who are have low ammo and morale (as well as few healthy bodies). Remember, this is my estimation of your situation...I could be wrong. So my feeling is that my left (your right) is a stalemate. It would cost you huge to attempt to cross that open ground. Unfortunately, that's where 2 VLs stand.

Your left (around the middle of the field. I'm not counting the guys you have down at the other flag {yes, I do see them}) started off well, but has since been beaten down. My SP was really what did it there. The squads in the woods are crushed, and will be of virtually no use to you anymore.

The only thing that stands is your center. That is the one question that's left for me. You have what appears to be a platoon plus support units on that hill behind your dead tank. I have no idea of their morale or disposition, but seeing as they arrived late, I assume that they have plenty of ammo, and should have live bodies and decent morale. I have lobbed some HE at them, but have no idea of how effective it was. These are about all you have left (+ that SP you're keeping out of harm's way) to win with. In order to do so, you need to deal a decisive blow with them.

You know more or less where all of my units are. You should have an idea of their disposition as well. Using that knowledge, you have to decide how to use your remaining troops. You can take them around to your left, and try to flank my forces there. You can bring them around to your right, bolstering your units locked in the stalemate, and possibly using those men as a firebase from which to launch an assault. Or you can take them up the middle...relatively uncharted territory for you this game. That is the spot that you are unsure of.

At Gettysburg, Lee surmised that since he had attacked on both wings, the Federals had reinforced both wings, thus leaving the center weaker than the wings. Is this the case here? No, I'm not going to tell you.

Here is where you need to decide what you think is the best use of your remaining troops. When it's all over, I'll tell you what I would have done. To be truthful, your lack of armor puts you in a tough spot. Even if your puma can take out my SP, you'll still only achieve a stalemate on the right, since you have no infantry to support that armored car. The men in your center hold the key to your victory.

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: You rock, Croda<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Hiram Sedai]

Croda, I wasn't expecting scenario or PBEM specific tips in this thread. I was hoping to pick up some ways to effectively use my infantry. The Y formation was helpful. I now can lose slower in a couple of my PBEM's.

I still want to know how Elvis does that thing with his infantry. He went through my forces like a hot knife through butter. I was defending a small town and he had a buttload of french troops. He went house by house and gang tackled me.

Question How many platoons per house? I want to avoid friendly fire.

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal