charlie don't surf Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 When a vehicle is hit in CM1 - say a tank, the main gun depresses showing that the vehicle is dead...will the graphics be different in CM2? Thrown turrets and the like? Battle debris would be very nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by charlie don't surf: When a vehicle is hit in CM1 - say a tank, the main gun depresses showing that the vehicle is dead...will the graphics be different in CM2? Thrown turrets and the like? Battle debris would be very nice...I can't remember where I read it, but I thought I saw something about extreme fog of war preventing a player from knowing whether an opponent's (nonburning) tank was dead or not. The player is then left with the dilemma as to whether he should fire another round at the 'KO'd?' tank or not. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 The graphical indication of a knocked-out vehicle will be pretty much the same in CMBB (CM2) as it currently is in CMBO. The texture swapping for unique vehicle damage is a bit much for the current engine (and graphics hardware) to handle with reasonable speed without sacrificing something else. Despite what you see in other games and screenshots, a blown-off turret wasn't that common. It takes a lot of explosive pressure to blow off the turret of the heavier tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I don't take requests. The final "dead" look of tanks is much the same as CMBO. No "persistent" debris is shown after a vehicle dies but the explosions leading to a vehicles death are ummm...improved, to put it mildly... You'll just have to wait and see. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I read on the CM Outpost the "Death Clock" stuff of the destroyed tanks in CMBB: It's really a great and very realistic idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Xavier: I read on the CM Outpost the "Death Clock" stuff of the destroyed tanks in CMBB: It's really a great and very realistic idea 'Death Clock'? Is this something I should know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by MrSpkr: I can't remember where I read it, but I thought I saw something about extreme fog of war preventing a player from knowing whether an opponent's (nonburning) tank was dead or not. The player is then left with the dilemma as to whether he should fire another round at the 'KO'd?' tank or not. SteveHmmm, I could see where this could be problematic. If you the human have a hunch an AFV is dead and you want your tank to target some inf in some woods, the AI may override you and target the dead tank anyway. Could be VERY frustrating. Yes yes, problems I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckman Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by MrSpkr: I can't remember where I read it, but I thought I saw something about extreme fog of war preventing a player from knowing whether an opponent's (nonburning) tank was dead or not. The player is then left with the dilemma as to whether he should fire another round at the 'KO'd?' tank or not. Steve Another Steve with a question. How is the above the players "dilemna"? If 10 seconds into a movie, I get a detailed AFV hit. Now isn't the "dilemna" only for the AI. Now I see it is at 60 seconds and I am plotting, I will be like hmmmm what to shoot at, i he dead or not. THAT decision is cool. But mid-movie I don't see the issue. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrold Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 The extreme FOW does seem to provide situations in which you may still be targeting an armored vehicle after it is dead at the start of a movement phase. So the question of whether to continue targeting the possibly dead unit or perhaps getting a potential few seconds head start on rotating to the next target definitely appears to be a part of the tense command decisions available in CM:BB. BDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I think that there are two extreme FOW issues that can happen with killing units. One is with AFVs, you get the so-called 'Death Clock' where the AI can continue to fire at a vehicle until it sees the crew bail. Once the crew bails, it knows the enemy vehicle is dead, and switches to another target. The second is with infantry units: when their last surviving member is killed, the Dead Body graphic doesn't automatically show up unless you can confirm the kill with a nearby friendly unit. An enemy unit that has lost its last man, but hasn't been confirmed yet will give you the Last Seen icon representing the enemy unit's last known location. Either way, the TacAI will stop firing when the enemy infantry unit disappears. Atleast I believe that's how it works. Currently in CMBO when you kill a tank, it's immediately known and your tank can begin traversing it's turret even before the shell impacts the enemy vehicle! The Death Clock will stop this behavior. So the TacAI will waste some ammo at times. Sounds good to me! I love CM's various built-in quirks and occasional instances of both good and bad luck that try to emulate real-life uncertainties on battlefields. They give the game great flavor. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Uber General Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 It would be cool if a dead tank with a small internal fire slowly cooked up over a few rounds. So a tank that was KO(?) explodes a few rounds after people stop shooting at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Actually, after reading Panzer Aces, I don't think turrets popping clean off the tank where all that rare. Seemed to happen quite a bit when ammo exploded, etc. Also, I didn't read a whole lot of these fellows killing a tank and going "hmm, is it dead? Fire again in case." Seemed that, according to the book at least, these guys pretty much knew when they had scored a kill. Then again, they were Aces and may have been better able to tell such things then other run of the mill Panzer Commanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 On a lot of WWII tanks Wrecks pics you can see several holes in the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I agree that turet popping is not that rare. As I understand it, turrets were not sealed or fastened to the hull in strength, but were basically set on top with only the turret ring holding them, so any internal explosion, or even a forceful enough 'punch' to the turret ought to be able to take it off. Most first hand accounts mention turrets popping at least occaisionally, though I have to say, in Panzer Aces it seemed a bit excessive, poetic license perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I don't know how often turrets popped in WWII,but I can tell you from personal experience that in the Gulf War just about every tank that burned popped it's top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Scipio: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Xavier: I read on the CM Outpost the "Death Clock" stuff of the destroyed tanks in CMBB: It's really a great and very realistic idea 'Death Clock'? Is this something I should know?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Chris/Wolfe, It seems that with all the units built into CMBB that you are going to have your hands full with the new CMBB database, the previous one being used extensively by me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitadelle Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Splinty: I don't know how often turrets popped in WWII,but I can tell you from personal experience that in the Gulf War just about every tank that burned popped it's top.In the case of the T-72 series, my understanding is that primarily had to due with the internal ammunition storage and lack of an adequate fire supression system. The T-72 uses a two-part round- both fed by the autoloader from a floor turntable. The design of the turntable exposed the two part rounds- a problem especially with the casing/propellent. When an AT round hit the T-72, it was quite common for at least one of the stored casings to be damaged. Once that occurred all that had to be applied was a little flame and the casing would 'cook-off' followed by the other rounds going. Of course 40 odd rounds going off in an enclosed space (i.e., the fighting compartment) would definitely cause a brew-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by WineCape: Chris/Wolfe, It seems that with all the units built into CMBB that you are going to have your hands full with the new CMBB database, the previous one being used extensively by me! Yeah, that's one of the few things I'm NOT looking forward to with the new game. 300+ vehicles! 600+ infantry and support units!!! :eek: And new categories in optics, turret crew, and cupola. Dunno how I'm gonna fit all that info in the charts. Folks may have to use a microscope to read them. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Juardis: Two ways to look at that... Though, whats more problematic, the TacAI engaging armored vehicles that COULD still be alive or some infantry? If that happened in game the solution is very easy. Simply use a Covered Arc command over the area with the infantry. That will help to keep your units attention where you want it. You could also place a Cover Armor Arc with one unit to keep watch on the armored targets, to be safe. Of course crew experience, self preservation concerns and C&C all help/hinder a units *obedience* to an arc command. Madmatt [ July 17, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Madmatt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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