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Cracking The Egg - Help Needed (possible spoilers)


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I have tried three times to win this one as the Soviets and each time I got wacked (best was a ceasefire which gave me a tactial defeat).

I could cope with the ATGs but the German re-enforcements have made my life impossible. The Sovs' aircover has been bloody useless (best result was just one assault gun taken out).

The scenario has obviously been play-tested and therefore it must be possible for the Sovs to win, but I am buggered if I can see how.

If anybody reading this board has any ideas I'd love to hear them. I will even buy beer for anyone giving useful information and who can make a boozer in central London.

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I playtested it as the germans and it is very easy to lose if things dont go your way in a few exchanges.

Best advice I can give is use some of the softer, cheaper vehicles to locate opposition and then the bigger, meaner ones to neutralize it. T34s are expendable. Also, scouting & screening effectively with your infantry is key. No need to lose nice, heavy assault guns to fausts.

WWB

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Nolloff,

Its a Soviet attack in 1944 (start of Op. Bagration). The Sovs have a whole swarm of ISU152s and ISU122s with SMG infantry and basically have to take a ruined village. Quite a small map for the firepower thats on it especially when the German STUGs and Tigers turn up, and that is really where my problems start.

wwwb_99,

I think you are confusing this scenario with another. I don't have any "expendable" T34s, enemy infantry is not an issue and scouting for the enemy is not the problem - I get to know exactly where the Tigers are without having to look for them.

Cheers

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Maybe the tanks were IS2s, but there were some in the version I tested.

The infantry battle is always key. If you take the hill and that line of trees on the german left away then they dont have nice, hulldown places to shoot at you from. Not to mention the whole flags thing.

Also, the SU122s and 152s can do alot of damage to stugs and tigers. Especially the stugs, over 750m or so the stugs can barely dent them.

WWB

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Hee.

I'm know what you're saying, Coffin 'Enry- I just tried this last night; one of my few utterly resounding defeats against AI. Naturally, I have to put *some* blame on my ignorance of these units- I only deduced after playing it that "cracking the egg" refers to the Tigers taking out a good dozen and a half of my Soviet Industrial Sized Tanks without breaking a sweat!!

Yes, I *failed* as a commander: even after it became clear that my steel was a complete wimp by comparison, I just couldn't accept it, (they look so big!), and I kept trying to engage those Tigers, loss after loss after... Sheesh! Even three or four of mine on one Tiger, and all I get is three or four losses! Hmmm.

Well, next time... Yes, next time. What can I change? All I can do next time will be to refuse to engage Tigers without them coming to ME. After all, I've got twice as many tanks as I need to wipe out the whole village, and tough arty besides. Therefore I will play chicken with half of them, sneaking behind hills to support my inf taking the village, slow but sure. The other half I will try to sneak into ambush position, for the time that the AI can no longer stand to see it's inf decimated by huge HE rounds...

?

Eden

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A couple of suggestions there thanks guys.

On the way to the tree line mentioned by wwb_99 is some dead ground well at least its unviewable from "Tiger Hill". Unfortunately its is also out of view from the village. Still at least it s a line of attack that is not instantly suicidal - probably.

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SPOILERS!!!!!!!!

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Divide your force. The left side is open and you can catch the Tigers napping. You still have to support on the right or your infantry gets slaughtered. Also a little bit of luck comes in on this with your air power. As BH said, fear the 88s. In testing, both sides managed to win this one against a human player.

Rune

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Thanks for the info, Rune.

My last failure was based around the force split, took most of the village killed most of the ATGs but couldn't deal with the Tigers (got just one of the buggers) and so eventually got stuffed. Bloody air force was useless again.

Not for the first time I find myself thinking, "I must try harder!"

Eden, how did your ambush go?

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Coffin,

That's the fun of a scenario. Play it again, use different tactics and see how you do.

SPOILER

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You have to keep the Tigers interested in the right hand side, and your left can catch them in the side. Keep your tank commanders unbuttoned to get the draw on them. I moved my infantry up the center and use the right hand side tanks to deal with the infantry in the buildings, and to keep the Tigers busy. Do not go up the road, have those tanks go more to the left. Let me know how it goes on your next try. A collasping building does make for a good smoke screen. smile.gif

Rune

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Finally cracked it.

With most of my armour going left I got lucky and caught two Tigers in the flank and a third one fell the next turn.

That enable me to keep one Tiger bottled up out of the way and the rest was straightforward.

A very good scenario indeed. My one criticism is the AIs determination to counter-attack, once one has taken a flag, means that its infantry will commonly leave nice, camouflaged, hidden positions and move to where the attackers supporting MGs and big guns can see them with predictable results.

Thanks, Rune

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[spoilerS]

(As if you've gotten this far and not seen any!)

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I got a draw on this one my first time through last night. Funny thing is, the Tigers weren't even number two on my list of major nuisances - a straightforward flanking maneuver took care of them (though they did account for an equal number of my vehicles). The biggies were the 88s (only one of which survived the rockets - fortunately) and the StuGs (!!!). The StuGs were routinely getting one hit = one kill frontally at around 500-700 m, including a couple of brew-ups. The Tigers, on the other hand, were usually taking about three hits to get a kill, mostly at around 1000 m. The air support wasn't that effective - just immobilized one Tiger (which WAS helpful, but not that helpful as it's goose was already basically cooked).

By the time I had those "Assault Guns" identified, I was sure I was facing JgPz IV/70s, or maybe even Jagdpanthers based on the way they were barbecuing my ISUs. Nope - just lowly StuG IIIGs! Go figure.

It's a heck of a scenario, though. The placement of the one 88 that wasn't nuked immediately was truly, truly evil (I used default placement for the AI, which I suspect is a must). I'll definitely have to try it again sometime.

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Spoilers

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Coffin'

FWIW, I just got done playing this one as the Russians, and managed a major victory (the AI surrendered on turn 30).

My "tricks" were to split my tank forces (one behing the ridge with the road, and the other along the scattered tree line on the right side of the map), and to use the scoot and shoot command. My airplanes only manage to take out one StuG, so I had the rest of the German tanks to deal with (as well as both 88s, which were a nuisance). Like Rune said, preoccupy the Tigers with the tanks in the treeline on the right, and take them out with flank shots with the tanks behind the ridge. I managed to kill 3 this way, and the last one died while taking out one of my tanks. The last remaining StuG proved the most difficult to take out; took about 4 of my tanks about 3 minutes to finally score a hit while he stood still!

One thing I learned the hard way (in a previous scenario) concerning the large-caliber Soviet tanks is that it takes them a lot longer to reload as compared to equilavent Germans tanks. So, with this in mind, make sure you use the pause command with the Russians when shootin' and scootin'.

Mike

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  • 3 weeks later...

I liked this one a lot. Played as Allies first and got a Major Victory at 72%, then played as Axis a couple of weeks later and got a Total at 85%. Pretty balanced, I thought. Much depends on the aircover - as Allies took 2 tigers/1 stug; as Axis didn't loose anything by careful hiding of units.

Pain in the neck getting AFVs plotted through the scattered woods though...

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I agree this is an excellent scenario; congratulations Rune on a first class creation.

The only downside is that with Mike and Rebus thrashing the AI first time through, and Demoss getting an honourable draw, I now feel that I am even worse player than I thought - it took me four/five goes plus hints from the designer before I beat the bloody machine.

I must try harder.

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  • 3 weeks later...

SPOILERS

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My god it's a hard scenario. I have tried it several times now and gotten smoked each time.

First time my artiillery barrage overshot, missing the enemy guns, my SUs couldn't hit the ATGs, but they had no problem hitting the tanks, the centre 2 taking out 6 during a shoot/scoot and finally some seek-hull-down-frustration shots, and the one on the right taking out 3 tanks during a duel (supported by several machine guns of mine) over 4 or 5 turns.

Tigers weren't much of an issue that time round, but their long range fire nailed one SU. The air support was worse than useless and bombed my own men. Round turn 25 took a ceasefire and a defeat.

Second go I tried a flank on the left, lost 4 SUs in one turn to a Tiger, couldn't hit the dang thing even once, still couldn't hit the ATGs in the centre, which took out a tank or two before I gave up trying to engage'em, it was just suicidal. That left the infantry advance difficult to support, as the artillery fire was so slow to hit the enemy ATGs. Nothing I could do about the Tigers, the SUs couldn't hit them and the airplane was useless.

Third go I tried to move in closer to engage, to try and negate the deadly optic advantage of the Germans, using the depression to the right of the center, behind the pine tree line, but got picked off by ATG fire and a Tiger via hard to spot sight lanes, I had thought I was covered but wasn't. Arrgh. The EFOW makes it very difficult to spot the ATGs, need infantry to go up first to spot, but the infantry can't get ahead without SU support, so it becomes a chicken/egg thing which is beyond me to solve.

Trying to engage the Tigers or ATGs at ranges above 750 m is just hopeless, the SUs can't hit anything at that range and their ammo loads are extremely low.

Absolutely insidious scenario, very well designed, waaaaaay out of my league though.

kunstler

[ December 12, 2002, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: kunstler ]

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You did right the second go round, but sounds like you move infantry OR tanks. Combined arms are a necessity. Move your infantry up and use the shoot and scoot to keep the at guns pinned down. If you cannot spot them, area fire where you know they were. Infantry firing there will keep the crews heads down.

Also, go more to the left as the russians. use a few tanks on the right to draw out the Tigers, then hit them on the side. Takes a little timing to do correctly.

Try it with this, and let me know how you do.

Rune

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Played this as the germans PBEM. Got soundly beaten but made the Russians bleed. Had a couple of luck things in a row go against me, which meant I knew I was on a loser by about round 5. Ithink against even a half-competent human opponent, the Germans can't win this one outright, it's just a matter of what sort of draw or minor they might scrape.

SPOILERS

The biggest beef I had with this one was where the Tiger reinforcements popped up. Why the hell will urgently rushing reinforcement tanks pop up in the middle of a paddock when there is less-exposed road access elsewhere?

My opponent was doing a classic Soviet mass wave of armour, and when my Tigers suddenly appeared, it was right in front of about 8 or 9 ISU-152's. The Tigers were dead in 2 rounds, half of them before they even got to move. Sure, they burned a couple of soviet assault guns, but not nearly enough to make a difference.

One of my 88s in some trees got taken out by an air strike before it even fired a shot, and one of the 75mm guns missed a point blank shot three times in a row before it's target AG pivoted and nailed it first time out with a snap shot.

It all went downhill from there, but I ended up forcing a draw through sheer exhaustion, and thanks to one squad that went fanatic and single-handedly held up one entire wing of the Soviet assault, accounting for 38 infantry casualties!

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Why would a tank travel on a road when there is enemy aircraft overhead? You would travel where there was some sort of cover. Also, how do you know where that unit was? Perhaps there starting position wasn't near a road. As for the German couldn't possibally win more then a minor, I guess the people who did better should go back and redo the game so they didn't do as well. smile.gif

Rune

[ December 13, 2002, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: rune ]

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Aha !! finally a suggestion on this baby, I have been giving this battle the go for the last week as russians. Tried left first time around got smoked, must have been unlucky will try that side again tonight.

BTW Rune this is a great scenario, tough as hell, right up there with Jaegermiester (sp?).

LOL I thought cracking the egg was making refernce to all the pounding my head has been taking on my desk during this one.

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i played this one against the ai... sent the first group of afvs to the far left... the crossed the path of the first reinforcement group of afvs on the road... those went up the road, and 2 of them were toasted by an 88... in the meantime the other group on the left got chewed pretty badly, first by an 88, then by the tigers popping up in the far left corner... then the stugs chimed in from the opposite far corner, and i pretty much threw in the towel... i then loaded this one into the editor to check out force balance, and realized that a player of my (dis)ability should probably wait for the entire force to show up, prior to actually attacking...

in short, i think this one will kill the impatient (impertinent?) allied player

grin

it was my first time with the isu122/152s... and the first time for hearing the long 88s and 75s... the shrieking sounds made in particular by the 88s on the one hand and the 122s on the other were impressive... i particularly liked the combined 'growl/shriek' of the 122s going off...

and in cmbb, when i hear an mg42 i definitely take it seriously... again, this one is a good scenario which punishes allied impatience...

the only thing i might change would be to make the map larger and have the tigers on the board at the start, instead of popping in in that corner at a random (30% arrival) time...

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