David Aitken Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 This scenario should just have gone up at Der Kessel (www.derkessel.de). The following is an AAR of the beta for Mensch's benefit, played between myself and CMplayer (Rett). I don't think the final version is significantly different. • • • • • Thanks for the scenario - it was rather an interesting fight. I would first like to complain in the strongest possible terms at the lack of aircraft. The briefing clearly stated that there were aircraft buzzing overhead and the 88 was shooting at them, but when I loaded up the map... nothing! If I don't see the US paras dropping from their aircraft in the final version, so that I'm able to shoot them as they come down, I may have to boycott this and the rest of your shoddy work. I spent the first turn doing that wonderful thing that CM enables - micromanaging from my god-perspective. All of my men were nicely laid out in teams as though they were in their billets, with one platoon on patrol, but was I going to pretend that they were all tired and confused and would end up prancing around the countryside in twos and threes as they realistically would? Of course not. So by the second or third turn my company was arranged in its three platoons around the town, the patrol had organised itself down at the HQ, the company commander was back in the village (or at least he would have been if the Kübelwagen hadn't left without him), and I'd sent trucks to pick up the 50mm guns. I allocated one Hotchkiss to each platoon and sent two out to the HQ. The first action phase was beautiful, like something out of a film, as men and vehicles sprang into action and rushed back and forth. I spent half of the battle on the assumption that paras were about to drop in all around town (and not conveniently out west where the glider troops were), so I kept two platoons back in the woods around the village, to the south and southwest. The third platoon was to the northwest, so this ended up going out to confront the glider troops, and of course the platoon out at the HQ was in combat throughout. Therefore Rett only had to deal with two platoons and three tanks initially, then another two plus tanks when I decided that I wasn't about to be swamped in paras. I brought all of the support units into the woods at the centre of the village, and then redistributed them amongst the buildings, so this was the final hurdle he faced. The platoon and two tanks at the HQ were allright for the first few turns. One tank was quickly gun-damaged and rendered useless, I think by 60mm mortars. The squads were a bit panicky, but held out. I used the off-board 81mm mortars to shell the woods across the grain field from the HQ, where Rett appeared to be rallying some of his troops. I took out an AT gun on the diagonal stretch of road to the northwest, and lost the gun-damaged tank to a bazooka from the main road. Before long Rett was advancing up the road and the fields on the northern side, so I brought the platoon in to try and flank him, whereupon the remaining tank was taken out by another AT gun next to the first, and the men came under fire from the aforementioned woods and elsewhere and all panicked. That platoon ceased to exist as a fighting unit, but some of the men survived his mopping-up efforts and the remnants of one squad rejoined the battle at the end (another was permanently routed). During this time I deployed the 50mm guns on either side of the road to the west of the village. One was taken out by .5in fire before it unlimbered. The other was able to provide some support fire for a few turns, although 50mm HE is nothing special (better than the useless 37mm on the tanks, though). Two HMG42s I put in the tall light buildings above happened to have LOS to the advancing enemy, and were active throughout, expending all of their ammunition before the end. I subsequently brought my two 81mm mortars forward to just behind the 50mm gun, and put fire on enemy troops advancing up the road (at minimum range), and on support units along the back of the northern grain field, before withdrawing them to the woods in the centre of the village where my crews were mustering. The platoon to the northwest of the village went out to meet Rett's advancing troops. I was hoping to catch them coming across the field, but they were protected by the bocage from my positions in the trees, so I moved my men forward to the bocage. The platoon's Hotchkiss exchanged fire with one of Rett's .5in machineguns and survived. My men took fire and started panicking, and one of CM's bugs came into play whereby they didn't regard bocage as cover. The right-hand squad ran into nearby brush where it was finished off by a US squad emerging from the bocage. The left-hand squad ran out towards the road, into the bocage, and was instantly massacred by Rett's troops on the road. I withdrew the centre squad to the woods, where it caught a US squad coming through the hedge-lined gap in the bocage, but didn't cause too many casualties. Shortly thereafter I was overwhelmed by Rett's troops and the tank was taken out by a rifle grenade at close range. I called the 81's in on those woods, immediately to the west of the village, some of the rounds hitting buildings occupied by my own troops. At this point I realised that paras or no paras, I would have to commit my remaining two platoons. On the south side, I advanced the platoon and its tank to the edge of the trees, where they were in a position to hold off Rett's troops which had finished mopping up my HQ platoon. The platoon to the southeast I ran up to the 88mm emplacement. No sooner had they arrived than Rett charged the buildings where my machineguns (and FO) were, and his troops were massacred. The southern platoon was now facing off against at least equal numbers of US troops, and were suddenly outflanked by a couple of crack squads, which (I later learned) had just dropped in. The paras charged in and were suppressed (I think they may have already been in a bad state), but one or two of my squads panicked, so I had to pull back the third, the platoon commander and the tank to the small buildings in front of the church. I noticed a US squad trying to crawl through the wire to the east of the village, one of only two which I confirmed as paras before Rett appraised me of the situation at the end. They were machinegunned, but another sneaked into the church behind my marksmen and took out the veteran before he was also caught in a hail of fire. I sent the platoon at the 88mm emplacement, my only remaining platoon (and probably the best, going by the commander's attributes) forward to clear up US troops in the woods, with the intention of sweeping round across the road to deal with the strongest remaining US position to the south of the village. I bypassed a couple of squads which subsequently opened up on the 88, taking out all but two of the crewmen, who nevertheless managed to return fire, and dealt with the threat together with a squad which I sent back. The platoon then proceeded across the road and was joined by the one aforementioned squad from the original HQ platoon. Immediately prior to this I had withdrawn the machinegun (with little ammunition left) and company commander from the building Rett had just charged overlooking the 88, leaving the gun unprotected, because fire from his surviving AT gun at the bend in the road was threatening to bring the place down. Rett attempted to charge the small buildings in front of the church, and was cut down by the remnants of my second-last squad, backed up by machineguns and assorted platoon commanders in the other buildings. He then either withdrew his remaining squads from the trees, or more likely I think they panicked, and were caught in the open by my last platoon. Time up, and the scoreboard said: Axis 110 casualties 2 guns KO 7 vehicles KO 118 men OK Score 63 Allied 188 casualties 4 mortars KO 1 gun KO 45 men OK Score 37 Minor Axis victory. I only lost one Kübelwagen (after taking the platoon commander down to the HQ building on turn one) and two trucks (one after emplacing the 50mm gun which wasn't immediately taken out, and the other I don't remember why). I kept the rest parked neatly in the middle of town where they were largely protected. That means, of course, that four of my lost vehicles were Hotchkisses - I only had one left at the end. Hotchkisses are useless against infantry, and I'm sure the green crews didn't help. They were little more than armoured, mobile machineguns, because the 37mm gun wasn't much use. So they didn't assist my defence particularly much. Likewise for the 50mm guns - HE not terribly effective, and no tanks to kill, so they added relatively little. The 88mm gun only came into play when it was directly attacked. It got a couple of shots in at an enemy squad earlier on (which had just taken out my surviving 50mm), and one well-placed shot at Rett's charging infantry across the road at the very end. The infantry was of limited usefulness. They put some fire down on the US squads, but generally panicked when any significant volume of fire was returned, and were dead if the enemy got up close. Towards the end I thought Rett had the upper hand, but I managed to hold him off thanks to the small reserve of firepower I had amongst the buildings. The HMG42s were probably my greatest asset, bar the off-board 81mm mortars, but were out of ammunition well before the end. I'm not convinced that the marksmen achieved anything. On the whole, I think this was a very realistic scenario. The Americans were well-trained but disorganised due to the drop, and the Germans were inexperienced and had a variety of moderately useful (or moderately useless) weapons. Had I left the village unguarded, I probably would have had an easier time of it, but I did feel that if Rett had been any better a player, I would have been toast. I suppose we're both moderately good players, so the fact that I came out marginally on top indicates that the scenario is quite well balanced (prior to this I beat him in another TCP game, but maybe due as much to luck and a bad force selection on his part than anything else). In terms of balance, up until the end I was going to say the Americans have an advantage, but I'd have to conclude that it's about equal. In terms of realism, it's fine - and if Rett had annihilated me, it would probably have been all the more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Hard lessons learned It was very interesting as a lesson in FOW to read David's description of this match. Time and again he refers to platoons where I had a squad or squads where I had a crew or a battered HQ. I experienced the same thing, and thought I was up against half again as many troops as I really was in that confused overcast dawn. This scenario had a very descriptive briefing, so when the map came up I really had the feeling of being in a believable situation. This wasn't front line combat against fixed positions. It was the outskirts of a French village where almost everyone was asleep, or just waking up. A kubelwagen burned rubber and started racing up a road to come under fire from killer paras, and trucks and vehicles were suddenly showing up with men and equipment. I was discovered! The only thing lacking was the barking of German Shepherds. David took _forever_ to plot his first move, btw. If he had stuck to some kind of a time limit, the confusion in the German camp would have been greater at the outset. This is not a criticism of him, though. I looked at his setup later, and HQ's are drinking at the cafe, half squads billetted all over town, and guns and vehicles parked at various points. Putting it all together must be a mess. On my right side I send a half squad towards a farmhouse. If I had read the briefing more carefully, or had labels turned on, I would have been more careful as that was the German security forces HQ! I also missed the advice in the briefing about flanking the village to the right (south) and working in that way. So these two initial mistakes led to my first thrust coming up the center, on the tree lined sunken road leading straight into town. Once I got over my initial shock, I noticed that my paras could deal quite well with what were obviously green opponents. His tanks were destroyable, his men routable and killable. But I don't think I would ever have gotten past the security HQ on the right after my intital lost halfsquad if David hadn't chosen to counterattack towards the sunken road. That gave me a shot at his second Hotchkiss and enabled me to chew up his troops with counterflanking paras who had recovered quickly from his prep bombardment with 81mm mortars. (David said 'rallying' but those guys had never broken. I had just pulled them out of sight of his hotchkiss) By then I had gone back and looked at the briefing, and so I left off mopping up his men and advanced on the right flank. Once I got reinforcements but couldn't find them! I decided (it being late at night and I was getting sleepy) that it was a sick joke on the part of the scenario designer, an empty reinf. slot! Not so. It was two crack squads who had parad in so close to the action, right under the eaves of an MG held building, that I didn't notice them on the overhead view. So no orders were given to help these guys out, and unfortunately they were routed and broken quickly. Hard lessons learned. At that point I had made significant advances, and the interesting thing is that this was not in line with the advice in the briefing. I had thrust straight forward up the center sunken road. David had tried to guard this approach with mortars and light guns, but I took care of those pretty quick. In the patch of forest north of the road by the town, he had a Hotchkiss and some infantry stalling my advance through the wheatfield. I took advantage of the confusion to run up to the edge of the village from the road and swing left, going around the bocage, to close assault his light tank, and finish off his infantry. This was dangerous of course, but seemed in character for paras. The next step seemed naturally to storm the buildings housing his MGs, but I was caught in a schoolbook ambush. David's reserve platoon had taken up a perfect position to fire at close range as I came into the open and I lost about 1 1/2 squads. My plan was flawed from the beginning as I had reason to believe that his 88 was covering the buildings, so I would have come under deadly area-fire in there. On the right (south) flank, I moved forward as instructed, and began greeting landing paras. These tended to be 'pinned' on arrival and needed time to recover before being pressed into duty. Stupidly, I tried to exploit their firepower while they were still 'shaken' and they quickly reverted to pinned status in the firefight. Once pinned their high quality didn't help. Chalk that one up to lack of experience. Give the newly dropped paras a turn or two get ready before pressing them into the line! This was just one of many finesses in the design of the scenario. Even a .30 cal mg and an HQ showed up behind the village. (David called them two squads) I tried to sneak them into position to support a rush on the town, but the MG was discovered and came under massive fire. The HQ ran into a church and went all the way up into the steeple to chuck out a sharpshooter they had noticed up there. But every gun in town opened up on them. I realized, too late, that that was the turn when my Paras in the patch of trees south of town should have rushed the village. TIMING TIMING TIMING! Hard lessons learned. On the left I snuck a tattered HQ and a mortar crew (yes I fought with mortar crews, and I'm not ashamed of it this being the 101'st Airborne at a critical hour) up to scout out the location of the 88 gun. They got into a close range firefight with the 88 crew which they had a chance of winning. That was a surprising lapse in security on David's part, but I didn't have the resources left there to exploit it. Again the confusion factor was big here. I was happy to see my boys had KO'd 4 light tanks: 1 with a bazooka team (which survived the battle), 1 with a rifle grenade at point blank range, and 2 with a 57mm AT gun, which I had had to move with a jeep, and manhandle around twice. These kills are probably what gave me the points to only get a minor loss. I was satisfied with the computer's assessment of the result, and think this scenario felt balanced. I played well (in my judgement) towards the beginning after the initial shock, but slipped up towards the end. So I got what I deserved. I would love to see more games of this sort to play double-blind in TCP. This was definitely a 'first time is best' scenario, though I would happily try it again as either side against any player. Map: 10 Atmosphere: 10 Play balance: 10 (low confidence figure) Size: small AI playability: Haven't tried. To sum up, I think this map and setup lead to a situation where there are lots of possibilities to take intitiatives and try to play creatively. My attack started out in a completely different way than that envisioned by the scenario designer, and had good chances of succeeding. Also, the map is intricate both in terms of elevation and terrain. This makes for complex interactions between the several areas of action. On the whole it was an exciting and entertaining game, which really engaged the imagination. It was _believable_ in a way that QB's often aren't. thanks, Mensch and David! --Rett [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Here are some specific responses to statements in David's review. This is just to satisfy my pride Pls don't take my comments as cranky. They could sound that way, but they ain't. > one of Rett's .5in machineguns My _only_ .5" MG, David! I had a lot less troops, on the whole, than you seem to assess. > I noticed a US squad trying to crawl > through the wire to the east of the > village... but another sneaked into the > church... an HQ and a .30 MG > I bypassed a couple of squads which > subsequently opened up on the 88, An HQ and a crew, about 5 men total. If I had all the 'squads' you're attributing to me I would have gotten a total victory! > Hotchkisses are useless against infantry, You have to view them as what they are, support weapons. They definitely helped stall me at several points, and injured several of my men. 'Useless' is really too strong of a word; they contribute to your overall firepower, just as a light mortar can do, but with greater accuracy, speed, armor, and an MG to boot! > (prior to this I beat > him in another TCP game, but maybe due as > much to luck and a bad force > selection on his part than anything else). What is _bad_ about 2 shermans, a chaffee and a rifle company? I didn't know I'd be up against 10 marders and 10 stuH's. --Rett [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>CMplayer wrote: What is _bad_ about 2 shermans, a chaffee and a rifle company?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Only a company? I was under the impression that your force was very infantry-heavy. I suppose a standard US company costs a good bit more than a German rifle company, so that would have left you with fewer points for armour. Your comments about FOW are interesting. On occasion I'm surprised in a game by the number of units my opponent seems to have. Maybe I should be more confident that I have the forces necessary to overcome the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Only a company? I was under the impression that your force was very infantry-heavy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay, maybe 4 rifle platoons total. I often like to buy a regular rifle company augmented with one vet platoon. I then put the lamest regs (HQ-wise) in reserve and lead with the vets. This does leave me less points for armor but I usually supplement the infantry's AT with a couple of extra vet zooks. The difference between reg and vet is very noticeable in AT teams, IMO. I've found this force works pretty well, though in the game with you it was a disaster. Is it a reasonable force, history wise? Will I incur the disfavor of more serious players showing up with these units? --Rett [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: CMplayer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Just played "Falling Eagles" I played as Allied vs Al (Germans) Axis Minor Victory. German score 59 Allied score 41 Very good Battle. I just play my battles against AL. Never have played a PBEM or on internet. I just am happy playing Al. going to play this battle over again. Very Fun to play. Lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 Just played this one, also. Allied (me) versus Axis (computer, with +2 experience) Allied tactical Victory. Axis: 143 Casualties (31 kia) 2 mortars dstyd 1 gun dstyd 8 vehicles KO'd men OK 85 score 34 Allies; 137 casualties (42 kia) 1 mortar dstyd men OK 96 score 66 Really nice battle. TOUGH! Nice map. Nice use of reinforcements. (dropping from the sky and all) This would be tough on the americans, playing TCP/IP or PBEM. Germans seem to hold all the cards. Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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