PIAT's - what use are they ??

[Degus]

Ask any Brit Air troopers who were at Arnhem how they felt when they ran out of PIAT rounds...That weapon was a must for that kind of fighting.

[Andy Foulke]

I just noticed this page which describes the use of the PIAT:

Panzerfaust

The PIAT is at the bottom, with a picture and everythink!

[CMplayer]

Originally posted by Degus:

Ask any Brit Air troopers who were at Arnhem how they felt when they ran out of PIAT rounds...That weapon was a must for that kind of fighting.

Yeah sure, next time I happen to meet a Brit Air trooper who was at Arnhem I'll be sure to ask him.

[Degus]

Ouch, CM have mercy! It was a rhetorical statement, not to be taken literally unless you are completely void of talent for abstract thinking...

[YankeeDog]

Just to further muddy the waters on the whole how the hell does this thing work question, according to the Panzerfaust website referred to above:

"The [PIAT] projectile leaves the weapon at a Vo of 135m/s but accelerates in flight."

Technically, this does make the PIAT at least partially a rocket-launcher. A true mortar weapon would reach maximum projectile velocity at the moment the round left the muzzle - there would be no acceleration in flight.

In regards to the firing sequence, the Panzerfuast website also states that, "... the firing pin hits the procectile in its rear, where a small charge of propellant is detonated." This makes the mortar analogy at least partially true as well.

So my best eductated guess as to how this weapon actually works based on what I've read so far:

The PIAT is a hybrid mortar-rocket weapon that uses a spring lock mechanism (rather than an electrical lock like the bazooka or Panzerfaust) to ignite a small propellant charge that serves to eject the projectile from the weapon at a velocity of around 135m/s (according to Panzerfaust), at which point it continues to accelerate to some unknown maximum velocity from the thrust of a small rocket charge. The heavy spring in the weapon is necessary to absorb and distribute the force of the initial mortar charge, but plays no role in actually accelerating the projectile towards it's target.

So, am I right?? The above is mostly connecting the dots, so I'd like to know if I got it wrong.

Cheers,

YD

[ May 29, 2002, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: YankeeDog ]

[CMplayer]

Okay Degus, I'll have mercy if you'll just remove your fingers from my throat....that's better thanks

[Degus]

The site YANKEEDOG referred to also says that HE and SMOKE rounds were available for use with the PIAT. Anyone know if HE rounds were available for Zooks and Schreks? Could or should this be modeled in CM? A HE round for PIATS could be an interesting addition to infantry battles, no?

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Degus:

The site YANKEEDOG referred to also says that HE and SMOKE rounds were available for use with the PIAT. Anyone know if HE rounds were available for Zooks and Schreks? Could or should this be modeled in CM? A HE round for PIATS could be an interesting addition to infantry battles, no?

Actually, the website states that Shrapnel(i.e., HE) and Smoke were available for the PIAT, Smoke and Incendiary for the Bazooka. The only alternate warhead it mentions for the Shreck is an experimental anti-air warhead that was only produced in limited numbers.

IMHO, the question of whether such rounds should be included in a future CM (presumably for the engine rewrite, since as far as I know no PIATs were ever sent to Russia, and while a few bazookas were, there is little evidence they were ever used) comes down to whether or not they were actually used with any frequency.

I'd first like to see production figures and dates for the alternate warheads, and then any evidence that they were actually shipped into the theatre. If there is evidence that a fair number of these warheads acutally reached troops, it's reasonable to guess that they were used with at least some frequency.

My guess is that if such warheads were used, they were issued mostly for close-in city fighting, where they would be most useful. Some kind of system for Quick Battles that tweaked the ammo loadout for urban maps by substituting a couple of HE rounds for C rounds for IAT weapons if the map was heavily urban would be cool if historical evidence supports this.

Cheers,

YD

[ May 30, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: YankeeDog ]

[Trooper]

On the spring issue, theoretically, the weapon only ever needed to be cocked for the first round, much like a self-loading rifle/pistol.

However, the problem was that the spring was so strong that the PIAT had to be braced very solidly indeed. (Think against a wall or something!) otherwise the person firing the weapon would be pushed back by the recoil as well. Not enough to cause him to fall over or anything, but enough that the spring wouldn't push back far enough to recock. This is why frequently you will see reference to troops having to recock after every shot.. they just weren't built strong enough to take the force.

NTM

[Denizen]

In the right situation, the PIAT teams can be the most potent tank killers out there. When using PIATs always make sure they are attached to a commander with the combat and stealth bonuses in order to make them the most effective. I had one experience where a Piat in the woods next to a commander took out a Panther at 180 meters and a Pzr IV at 90 meters in one turn! :eek:

[xerxes]

Good point about the stealth bonus and piats. The "silent" firing is one of their great advantages, a double "?" commander would really help them go undetected. Double "?" and double "lightning" would be a great add for a piat team.